What Christians Need to Know About Islam Right Now

Nate (00:00:00):
And often what we hear from the Muslim world is, “Oh, no, no, no. Islam is a beautiful, peaceful religion.” And they’ll often quote from the Quran and they’ll say, “You know, the Quran says, You have your religion. I have mine. In the sense of like, hey, we can all just get along. Which is wonderful. It sounds nice. Right? And that’s how Muhammad started. But Muhammad started with his messaging like that because he didn’t have power. He didn’t have influence and he didn’t have a military backing him. Now there’s two periods of Muhammad’s messaging. And the second period of his messaging is when he has influence, power and an army. And it’s a completely different message. It’s do not befriend the Christian and Jew, but they’re enemies with one other. But in fact, submit them and force the jizzier on them, which was a tax that Muhammad said, Christians have to pay if we’re to live in a Muslim country.

(00:00:50):
So we were subjected under their authority. He says, kill the disbeliever. He says, fight those who don’t believe in him or Allah or the last day. And so his whole messaging changes when he has power and influence. Now, when you think about it, that’s exactly the same as Islam. It will enter into a country saying, “Hey, we just want to live in peace and Islam is a beautiful, peaceful religion. And we also believe in Jesus and we love Jesus. We love all the prophets

(00:01:16):
Because they don’t have power and they don’t have influence. But when they get power and influence, what do we see? Iraq, Iran, Syria. We see bloodshed. We see violence. We see minorities oppressed and persecuted. Ask the Kurds, ask the Yazidis, ask the Jews, ask the Christians in any Muslim majority country. You are a third class citizen. And if you do anything to insult or rival their religion, you’re on the chopping block.

David (00:01:54):
Welcome back to another episode of the Covenant and Conflict Podcast. And with us again is … Oh, man. Now I say Nate Buzz, but it’s Nathan. You can do

Nate (00:02:04):
It. Nate

David (00:02:05):
Buzz.

Nate (00:02:05):
Nathaniel Bazolich or Nate Buzz?

David (00:02:07):
Brizolich. Bazolich.

Nate (00:02:08):
Bazolich.

David (00:02:09):
Nate Buzz is how he’s known on Instagram. And this is a long awaited second episode.

Nate (00:02:15):
Yeah.

David (00:02:15):
Because if they saw the first one, they wanted to go straight into the second one. Thank you for being here again.

Nate (00:02:20):
Yeah, it’s good to be back. I know in the last episode I talked about hinting at the idea of some of the miracles that I saw over the past two years. And I’d probably start this conversation by stating that the last two years and that the work and the efforts that I’ve made for Israel have been the best two years of my life and the worst two years, simultaneously. Why is that? Because I’ve seen so much pain, so much suffering, and so much tragedy experienced by the Jewish identity, collectively not only what was happening in Israel, but also around the world. I mean, a few weeks ago, since while we’re shooting this podcast, there was a terrorist attack in Sydney, Australia, where I grew up at Bondi Beach where Jews were targeted at a Hanukkah celebration. Two Islamists who were completely focused on causing mass casualties at a Jewish event, just took to a bridge and started shooting as many people as they could, which was unbelievable.

(00:03:24):
But that’s just not an isolated event. We had something that happened in Colorado and America. We remember the shooting of the two embassy workers in Washington DC.

(00:03:34):
Manchester, there was a stabbing on Yong Kippur. And time and time again, what we’re seeing is this hatred towards the Jewish identity, which has been presented to the world as we’re not against Jews, we’re against Zionists.

(00:03:49):
Yeah.

Nate (00:03:50):
And I think for the believer, you need to start waking up and realizing that there is no separation between a true Jew and a Zionist. Now, my understanding of Zionism is very, very simple. It’s the belief that the God of Israel made a covenantal promise that a people and a land were going to be divinely connected.

(00:04:11):
And the belief in that promise is believing that Israel is a nation that was chosen by God and must be part of his story and has returned to the stage just as God had planned in the most powerful and compelling way that we get to live and experience. But I think when you look at Israel as a whole as a nation, there’s a couple of things that I think from a biblical point of view, you can really start to see how this is God’s story unfolding. The reestablishment of Israel, which we talked about last episode in 1948, I think is so profound. What’s interesting about Israel being reestablished as a nation is the discovery that was made only a few years before Israel came back onto the international stage. And that was the discovery of the dead sea scrolls, which is one of the greatest archeological finds that has ever occurred, particularly for the believer in the Bible, the Torah, the Tanakh, and for us as Christians, because what it confirmed is the consistency of the Bible that we read today as being the same as what it was thousands of years ago.

(00:05:20):
And more so Isaiah, because I think Isaiah is one of the most powerful, prophetic and most important books that point us to the reality of the identity of Messiah. So for that book and for that scroll to be discovered-

David (00:05:35):
In its entirety.

Nate (00:05:36):
In its entirety.

David (00:05:36):
Which is, I don’t think we had a full scroll of Isaiah from that long.

Nate (00:05:41):
Yeah. And the ideas that are presented in Isaiah to be discovered a mere two years before the reestablishment of Israel, it almost feels like God is saying, “What precedes my nation will always be my word.” So his words discovered, his nation comes back, which are many of the promises in Isaiah, and we see this covenantal promise coming to life. So 1948 was the year God said, “My nation is back.” But what happened in 1948, because Israel claims independence from the British mandate on the 14th of May, 1948 and the very next day, the Arab nations that surrounded Israel declared war on the Jew. They wanted to commit the genocide. They wanted to destroy not only the recently created state of Israel, but the Jewish identity in the land.

(00:06:36):
And they were the ones to initiate a war which they would ultimately lose. And this is known as the independence war in Israel. Now, often pro- Palestinian groups will say that the land was stolen by this Jewish identity and that before this recreation of the state of Israel, everyone was living in peace, which is a complete and utter lie, and history proves that. There’s an event from 1929 in a location called Hevron. Now, Hevron is obviously famous in our Bible. It’s the place where King David would rule and reign for seven years before conquering Jerusalem, but more important, it’s also the location where Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob are buried. Yeah. And in 1929- Yep, Makpila. This is the piece of property that Abraham would purchase so he could bury Sarah. It’s still there today, which is so incredible because when you actually think about it, we have to remind ourselves how God defines himself to his people and how often the Jewish people relate to the God of Israel.

(00:07:46):
God will say, “I’m the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.” He declares that he’s the God of these three men, historical figures and these historical figures, we know where they’re buried today. I feel like God made sure that the tomb of the patriarchs, the place where Abraham purchased that land was important to exist to this day because when we go looking for the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, it’s kind of important that we know where Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob are buried. Yeah. We’re not going

David (00:08:16):
To Iran. Yeah.

Nate (00:08:17):
It brings us into reality.

David (00:08:18):
Yeah.

Nate (00:08:18):
This is a real story,

David (00:08:20):
And

Nate (00:08:20):
This is a real God who walked with these men, made covenant with these men, and more than that made covenant with the future descendants who have now returned to the land. But in Hevron in 1929, the Arabs committed a massacre of Jews who were living in the land. In 1929, 67 Jews would be brutally murdered by the Arab population in 1929. Now, this establishes two very important things for people listening today. Number one, there was already a Jewish presence in the land prior to 1948. Yeah. They

David (00:08:52):
Didn’t all move in on one day.

Nate (00:08:53):
They didn’t just show up on boats and as the story tries to present self colonizes, they all just came from Poland and they just came and took over our land. The other thing is, it shows that there was deep resentment and distaste towards any Jewish presence in the land by the Arabs before the reestablishment of Israel. The Arabs, the Muslims specifically, hated the fact that Jews were in the land and they wanted to kill them even in 1929. So to say that there was some sort of Palestinian state where everybody was living in peace during the British mandate would be a lie. And it actually tells us that there was plans and deep hatred of Arabs who were living in the land to wipe out the Jews because it’s a rival belief system. We see this in scripture and we see this in the moment that Paul taps into this where he talks about Isaac being the son of the promise and Ishmael being the son of the flesh.

(00:09:56):
And when you actually look at these two religions, it’s still fitting today. Now remember, Abraham would take the advice from Sarah and he would sleep with her servant, Hagai or Hagar, and that’s how Ishmael would come about.

(00:10:12):
But what’s really interesting about that is when God tells Abraham to go and sacrifice Isaac in the book of Genesis, three times God will say to Abraham, “Go and sacrifice your only son whom you love.” It’s a strange statement to make-

David (00:10:32):
Because with the guy with two sons.

Nate (00:10:34):
He’s got

David (00:10:34):
Two sons. Yeah.

Nate (00:10:35):
But what God is making very, very clear is, no, no, no, you have one son because I only ever told you that you were going to have one son, which I was going to bring about through the promise. You chose to go following the advice of your wife to enter into the flesh. And that little split decision of Abraham to try and take matters into his own hands to move God’s story forward through the flesh, created Ishmael. And Ishmael is ultimately going to be what the Muslim nations declare as the birth of the Arabs, right? So

(00:11:09):
Ishmael

Nate (00:11:10):
Comes from the Arabs and now Abraham’s choice to not trust God and to take it his own way has become the biggest problem for the Jewish identity. And Islam is the most motivated group of people to rival and destroy the Jewish identity today. And so when you study Islam, when you focus on the ideology and the workings of particularly the Muslim brotherhood or even what we’re seeing today with Iran, they are bent on destroying not only Israel, but the Jewish identity. So it’s almost like a biblical story where it’s the God of Israel against the God of Islam, who they call Allah. It’s the prophet Muhammad, according to the Muslims, opposing the prophet Moses. And so that’s what we are watching, a biblical battle unfolding before our eyes as believers. And what I’ve found heartbreaking in a lot of ways is many Christians don’t realize this is a biblical battle and we have to choose aside.

(00:12:17):
I can choose Judaism or Jihadism, but I have to make a choice and such is life.

David (00:12:23):
So if someone hears that, their answer might be, “I choose Christianity.”

Nate (00:12:28):
Yeah.

David (00:12:29):
So what do you say?

Nate (00:12:30):
So my argument is this, and this is probably going to be something that a lot of people that are listening to this podcast will hear for the very first time, and it might make you feel a little bit uncomfortable.

David (00:12:39):
Might turn off the podcast.

Nate (00:12:40):
Yeah, but bear with me. Christianity is not a religion. It’s not a religion. Jesus did not come to start a new religion 2000 years ago. Christianity is a Jewish movement from 2000 years ago in a complete belief that the promised Messiah to the Jewish people has finally come. And with his entry into the world, there is now access for the non-Jewish world to access what the Jewish people were gifted with to begin with,

(00:13:13):
Relationship with the one true God. Now, why do I not believe Christianity is a religion? One, because Judaism was the religion that was instituted by God through the prophets that would ultimately lead us to a Jewish Messiah. Jesus kept the law. He was observant of the law and everything he taught and everything he preached came from what was prophesied about. He didn’t change anything. In fact, when he goes onto the Sermon of the Mount, he says that I have not come to abolish the law, but to fulfill it. He’ll even go on to say anyone who tries to change it, manipulate it, teach it differently. Yeah.

David (00:13:50):
That one jarter tittle followway. Nothing. Yeah.

Nate (00:13:53):
So that tells me Christianity is not a religion. It’s not the second religion. And this is why it’s so important. And this is the mistake that the church made when it became a nationalized, institutionalized movement, essentially from the time of Constantine where he’s like, “We need to make Christianity nationalized,

David (00:14:15):
Institutionalized.” Yeah, he legalizes it and then a couple century laters, it’s the dominant religion. And it

Nate (00:14:19):
Morphs into something completely different. But this is why it’s a problem because the Muslims today will say we are the third and final religion. And their argument is Judaism came first and the Jews messed it up and then Christianity came and that got corrupted. And now we’re the third and final perfect religion. And Muhammad is the final prophet. They say, “Well, he’s the final prophet.” Now here’s a problem. If Christianity is a Jewish movement, that means there’s only one religion that’s true, which is Judaism. And the truth of Judaism should ultimately point us to who the Messiah is, which the Bible does very, very simply. I’ve read it. I feel like that’s where I get to. There’s one king, there’s one beginning, there’s one end, and his name is Yeshua, and he’s going to fulfill everything that was required. That means Islam ceases to exist.

(00:15:11):
It cannot operate anymore because if there’s not a second religion, there’s no need for a third. And so what we’ve done is we’ve opened the door for false religions to come in. Now, I think the Bible was preparing us and warning us of this. Yeshua warns us of false prophets. Paul warns us of false prophets. And he says, “If anyone comes preaching another gospel,

(00:15:35):
Let them be a cursed.” But this is Muhammad, a false prophet who will steal and hijack the stories from both the Jews and the Christians, not even correctly. A lot of the stories that he speaks about with Jesus in the- Yeah, they’re confused. They’re from the apocryphals. Yeah, names. Everything’s confused.

David (00:15:56):
Yeah.

Nate (00:15:57):
But it’s a defilement of what we believe, a complete defilement of what we believe. In fact, the Dome of the Rock, which sits on the Temple Mount today. Many people would be familiar with it. Maybe you’ve seen it. It’s quite an interesting building. Yeah. Google

David (00:16:11):
Jerusalem, that’s it.

Nate (00:16:12):
Yeah. It’s iconic.

David (00:16:14):
Yeah.

Nate (00:16:15):
Inside the Dome of the Rock, there is Quranic inscriptions that are probably some of the oldest inscriptions you can find recorded in the world. And what’s interesting is every single inscription within the Dome of the Rock are the ones that deny the divinity of Jesus. That

David (00:16:34):
God doesn’t have

Nate (00:16:35):
A son.That’s the abomination of desolations.

(00:16:39):
You’re insulting the very son of God publicly. You’re declaring it. It’s a battle. In fact, the last time I was in Israel, I was with my group on the Mount of Olives and we had got there relatively late at night, so it was dark. And I was pointing out this 3,500 acre piece of land, which is the most important real estate in the entire world because that is the place where God called David to purchase the threshing floor. That’s where Solomon would build the first temple. That’s where the second temple would be built. And that’s ultimately where God will dwell and reign at the centuries people forevermore. The new Jerusalem, right? We know exactly where it’s going to be because it’s going to be sitting right on top of the current Jerusalem.

(00:17:26):
And so I took my group there at nighttime and I was showing them this strip of land and you get a really great view of the Temple Mount from the Mount of Olives. And what was interesting is around the Temple Mount, I pointed out seven different mosques that had been positioned around the Temple Mount. And you can see them because they have the long towers with the Quranic sort of thing and they’re lit up green at nighttime. And I said, “Can you see the enemy surrounding God’s holy place? Can you see it? ” And it’s the enemy of God is Islam. And that’s maybe a very controversial thing to say, unfortunately, in 2026, but it shouldn’t be. And it should definitely not be for the Christian because everything that the Muslim believes in is in direct opposition to what we believe in. But what they do is very, very intelligent.

(00:18:16):
“Oh, we love Jesus and we believe he was a prophet. We just don’t accept him as- Peace be upon him, right? Yeah, peace be upon him. But this is all manipulation. This is all a strategy. This is all a way to make you feel comfortable with coexistence with them while they plot and plan to conquer. And I’m going to be very clear with what I’m going to say here.

(00:18:38):
Islam is a religion that does not desire to coexist. It desires to conquer. You can see that in the current Israeli-Palestinian conflict. The Arab-Palestinian identity, which is completely fabricated, it was created in the 1960s. The Arabs prior to 1948 did not refer to themselves as Palestinians. This was something that took place in the 1960s under Yasa Arafat, because they realized that the Jewish Israeli presence that now had reestablished themselves had such strong identity and connection to the land, that they also need to create a counterweight.

David (00:19:16):
Like a national identity.

Nate (00:19:19):
How can you fight for a piece of land that you have no identity with? You need to create it. And so the idea of the exclusive Arab-Palestinian identity was created in the 1960s. The Palestinian flag was created in 1964. You’re telling me a people that have supposedly preexisted the Jewish identity didn’t have a flag until 1964. Yassa Arafat was born in Egypt. So your most famous leader who was corrupt and his daughter, Yasa Arafad’s daughter is, I think she’s worth $8 billion today. Corruption, possibly. You’re telling me you have none of that to show. So it’s all fabrication. But when you think about the biblical narrative,

(00:20:05):
Think about how the enemy operates. Deception, lies, the counterweight. When Adam and Eve were in the garden and God gave them a strict instruction, “Do not eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, or surely you will die.” The serpent would come to the woman and he would say, “Did God really say that? ” No. If you eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, you’ll become like God. And so I think it’s really important that the devil is in the business of deception, in deceiving. And if God has a promise to the Jewish people, an unbreakable covenant that he has committed to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, the enemy must create a counterfeit, a fake fraud. And that’s the Palestinian identity. They’re driven by Islam, they’re driven by Jihad, and they refuse coexistence with the Jewish identity. I mean, the wars that have been going on in Israel have been purely because of their aggression.

(00:21:00):
And what ends up happening, like we were talking about in 1948 is they start a war, but they lose the war. And then they regroup and then they’ll commit another war and they’ll lose the war again. So what essentially happened is from 1948, Israel gained independence. The very next day, the Arab leagues declared war on the Jews and all the Arab nations surrounding Israel came to destroy Israel. Now what happened during that period of time is they told the Arab population who was loyal to Islam, “Get out of the way because we’re coming to kill the Jew.” So the Arabs would leave their homes and they’d said, “When we’re finished with them, you can come back.” Here’s the problem. They’re lost. And so what the Arabs created was this idea called the Nakba. The catastrophe is what they call it in Arabic. We lost and we lost our homes and my grandmother’s key.

(00:21:50):
But what it actually tells you is you were convinced that the Arab nations who had more power were going to defeat the Jews and you were going to come back home. The

David (00:21:57):
Whole world, I think though that. You

Nate (00:21:58):
Lost. And you don’t get the spoils of war if you lose. You chose the war, you lost, and now you’re upset that you lost, so you have to change the narrative. In 1967, they tried again. It’s known as the six-day war in Israel. And I find the six-day war, once again, another biblical marker of the sovereignty of God. Why do I think this? What does God do on the seventh day?

David (00:22:23):
Rests.

Nate (00:22:23):
Ah, interesting. So the six-day war is known because it only lasted six days. And I feel like it was a sign from the God of Israel to his nation that even though you are a small people, I’m fighting your battles and I’ll fight for six days and you’ll rest on the seventh. And here’s the irony of the six-day war. And this is the real heart of the Jewish people, which I think many people don’t understand. On the third day of the six-day war, the Israelis had actually conquered the Temple Mount for the very first time.

(00:22:54):
Yeah.

Nate (00:22:56):
The first time in 2000 years, they had sovereignty and control over the Temple Mount. The most holier sight in all of Judaism. They

David (00:23:06):
Would have had pretty much just the coast at that point, what we would know as like Tel Aviv.

Nate (00:23:11):
It was East Jerusalem. The Egyptians had control over Gaza, right? So Gaza was under the control of the Egyptians from 1948 to 1967. And that’s also really important because do you know what we didn’t see from 1948 to 1967? An uprising of the Arab Palestinians asking the Egyptians to leave their land.

David (00:23:31):
Yeah.

Nate (00:23:32):
Why? Because it wasn’t about land.

David (00:23:34):
Yeah.

Nate (00:23:35):
It was about the annihilation of the Jews. They don’t care. Yeah. They don’t want the land. They just don’t want the Jews to have it. But in 1967, God wins that war and Israel expands even more. Yeah. They actually conquered the temple mount. They conquered the Golden Heights. They conquered and they took over Gaza from the Egyptians. But here’s what’s interesting.

(00:23:57):
And this is what I think is really important to understand about the Jewish identity. They had control of the Temple Mount and that is the holiest side in all of Judaism. Now, Islam will claim it’s the third holiest sight in Islam. So obviously Mecca is the holiest site in all of Islam where they have the blackstone that they believe Ishmael and Abraham built, and then they’ll circle around that in their pilgrimage going to Mecca. Medina is the second holy side. And then they’ll say, Jerusalem is the third holy side. Even though Jerusalem is never mentioned in the Quran, not once, not once. They just claim it because they say when Muhammad went on his night journey on the back of a flying donkey, he went to the furthest mosque in the east. So they just go, “Well, it’s Jerusalem.” But it doesn’t really make much sense that it is Jerusalem because it never says that, never claims that.

(00:24:55):
In fact, the interesting thing about the Quran is how it often contradicts itself. And it actually refers to the children of Israel, the sons of Israel, and that God gave them the land. So they kind of in opposition of their own text very often. But what’s interesting is when they had control of the Temple Mount, they had to make a decision. Do we hold onto it? You’re

David (00:25:17):
Talking about the Jewish people- The Jewish people. On the

Nate (00:25:20):
Third day, they

David (00:25:20):
Had control

Nate (00:25:21):
Of the Temple Mount.

David (00:25:22):
Yeah.

Nate (00:25:22):
Right? That was the moment where they could say, “We got it. Let’s rebuild the temple.”

David (00:25:27):
And the UN wanted it to be a international city. International side.

Nate (00:25:31):
Well, the Israelis actually said, “We’re going to hand it over in a peace deal.” We’ll give you what’s most important to us, the most important piece of property.

David (00:25:41):
Yeah, by far. Because

Nate (00:25:44):
That way you’ll realize we just want peace. Think about that. Imagine if the Muslims said, “We’re going to give up Mecca so that we can have peace with another belief system. We’ll give it up. It’s the most holier sight to us, but we’ll give it up because we prefer peace over just a location.” That is the heart of the Jewish people.

(00:26:05):
Giving up the most important thing to you, right? Sacrificing what the most important thing to you is in an effort for peace is unheard of. The Arabs would’ve never done that. The Jews did it. In 1973, there was another war. It’s called the Yong Kippur War. What’s interesting about the Yonkipour War is Israel was attacked on the holiest day of the year. Now, if you understand the Torah and the Tunak, you know that the day of atonement, which is in our Bible, Leviticus 16, is the holiest day where everything stops. The Jewish people will go into a 25 hour fast. And today in Israel, it’s still the same. Everything shuts down. An airplane is not allowed to fly over Israeli airspace on Yonkipour. No work. Everything shuts down. It is a day of mourning and fasting, which is quite incredible. But the Arabs attacked the Jews on the day of Yong Kippur in 1973.

(00:27:01):
Why? Because they knew everything shuts down. Yeah. But even more interesting, I think about it like this, the enemy wanted to attack the holiness of the Jewish identity. When the Jewish people stop and reflect that they need God to save them from their sins, the Arabs attacked.

(00:27:19):
And I think that’s a reminder of the spiritual battle we find ourselves in today in this age. And then obviously most recently, we’ve had this October 7th event where 3000 plus terrorists entered into Southern Israel. They massacred 1200 Israelis in less than eight hours. They took about 252 people hostages into Gaza. The last living hostages were finally released after 738 days being hidden in tunnels. Some of those hostages who I met did not see the light of day for 738 days.

David (00:28:00):
Gosh.

Nate (00:28:01):
Darkness, starved, beaten, tortured, both physically and mentally.

(00:28:07):
Yeah.

Nate (00:28:09):
Young Israelis were the girls. The girls were … Many of them don’t really want to talk about it. Some are starting to open up about the sexual abuse. Men were … By Hamas terrorists, men were by Hamas. But that attack fell on a very, very specific day. It was during the holiday of Sukkot, which is an important festival that the Jewish people celebrate.

David (00:28:34):
Yeah. Our Bibles is tabernacles.

Nate (00:28:36):
Tabernacles. Yeah. So the feast of tabernacles, it’s something that Jesus participated in. But it fell on the day which is known as Simcha Torah, right? Which is the beginning of the Torah starts again. And

(00:28:49):
If

Nate (00:28:49):
You know anything about the Jewish tradition, they work through the Torah every pasha every single week until they work through the entire Torah and then they start all over again. And that was the starting point.

David (00:29:02):
It’d be like us having a day called Bible Day. It’s like-

Nate (00:29:05):
Yeah, we’re starting again.

David (00:29:06):
We’re starting again. Genesis one one. And we celebrate the Bible. We celebrate the Torah. Yeah.

Nate (00:29:09):
Yeah.

David (00:29:10):
It’s a day of celebration.

Nate (00:29:10):
And what is it? It’s a celebration of God’s word. Yeah. And Hamas, the enemies of Israel attacked again. Yeah. They always attack on the holiest days. That’s why I know this battle isn’t just with flesh and blood, but it’s a battle of spiritual proportion. Yeah,

David (00:29:30):
There’s spirits behind this. Yes. So what would you say to someone who’s listening to this if they haven’t turned it off already?

Nate (00:29:36):
Right. Because he’s not very nice to my Muslim friends.

David (00:29:40):
Yeah. So the Arab identity, you’re not even taking into consideration your only son because Ishmael’s not a son. Isn’t that delegitimizing their humanity? Isn’t that this triumphalism, this colonial The mindset, what do you say to the-

Nate (00:30:02):
The Arab world is under a cloud of darkness, which is Islam. And they need the gospel and they need the truth of who Jesus is just as much as everyone, if not more. Because I really look at the creation of Islam as a strategy of the devil. When you think about Judaism, they’re not in the business of converting and they’re not in the business of convincing people to follow the God of Israel. Despite the fact that they were called to be a light to the nations, they don’t really have the evangelical spirit of going, “You need to become a Jew.” In fact, if anything, Judaism says, “We don’t need you. We don’t want you. You wouldn’t want to become a Jew. We’ve got to follow 613 laws and you do you, we do us.” Because

David (00:30:45):
The biblical principle in their minds, even the Messianic hope is one day the Messiah will rule in range Rerusalem and then all the nations will know and that’ll be the kind of final confirmation. From

Nate (00:30:54):
Their framework, there are people set apart. They’re not operating to bring people in.

David (00:30:59):
They’re

Nate (00:31:00):
Just the people that have to represent the God of Israel and that’s it.

David (00:31:03):
We’re

Nate (00:31:03):
Going to show you who he is, but you don’t have to join us to be a part of the program. And so we have this idea that Judaism exists and then Judaism obviously goes and disappears into the world after the destruction of the Second Temple. And what happens after the destruction of Second Temple? Christianity explodes throughout the world. And people like-

David (00:31:25):
At first, as a movement within Judaism, 100%.

Nate (00:31:28):
Absolutely. A Jewish movement that explodes and all of a sudden non-Jews are hearing that the God of creation has a place available for them through the Messiah. And people are buying into it. Why? Because it’s the truth, because it’s life and everything in my pagan world that I’ve been living in is empty and has no life in it. I know that. So I’m drawn to this belief system. And so as Christianity expands and grows through all the nations, if I’m the devil and I’m watching Christianity grow in an unbelievable way, what am I going to do to counter it? I’ll create a religion.

(00:32:10):
I’ll

Nate (00:32:10):
Create an opposing force to the movement of Christianity. Bang. Islam is born. And so when you look at Islam, it operates in the flesh. A perfect example of this, which I find interesting is the way that women are treated, the way that women are dealt with, specifically women are to cover. But you’ve got to ask yourself the question, why does a woman need to cover herself so extremely,

(00:32:39):
Especially

Nate (00:32:40):
As Islam intensifies? And the argument is, so the men don’t sin. So you don’t make a man lustfully look at you. Think about the difference between Christianity and Islam. In Christianity, it says the man’s heart needs to change. Do not look at a woman lustfully because you’ve committed adultery with your heart. So you need to change. Your heart needs to change. There needs to be a transformation on the inside. So I no longer look at her like an object to have to desire, but a daughter of God. I need to change. Islam’s the opposite. It says, “I’m not going to change, so you cover up. Hide yourself.

(00:33:25):
Otherwise, if I desire you and you’re not dressing appropriately and I you, it’s your fault.” And that’s what Muslim Imums will claim in our world today. You can find YouTube videos of almost like, “Oh, well, if she was dressed inappropriately and it’s on her.” We’ll claim that in the Islamic faith. And the problem with Islam is it’s a religion of the flesh. And I can even prove it further with how they view their idea of paradise or heaven. So for a Muslim, we’ll often hear about this idea of virgins. Sometimes people say, “Ah, 72 virgins, if you’re Amarta for Islam and you die and you go to heaven and there’s all these…” It actually never specifically says the number. It just says many. And what’s interesting about Islam is it claims that these women, these virgins that they have in heaven that they can just sleep with all the time.

(00:34:13):
Now remember, it’s all about the flesh, right?

(00:34:15):
Yeah.

Nate (00:34:16):
They’re so beautiful that even the demons, the gin find them attractive, which I feel like that’s kind of weird. So demons and gin find these virgins really beautiful and all you’re doing in your paradise is just creating a brothel. It sounds like the brokenness of our world. It sounds like Sodom and Gomorrah. Yeah. And yet that’s their idea of heaven because it’s catering to the flesh. And when I think about it, it makes sense because if you’re a warlord like Muhammad was during his period of conquering the Middle East and you have all these men and they’re buying into your program and your religion and they’re going into battle and they’re fighting and they’re killing and they’re trying to take other people’s riches and their wives and all these things is why the Quran says whatever you possess with your right hand, you can also sleep with.

(00:35:04):
So there’s a lot of things within the Quran that allows for conquering, taking and stealing. Now, if I’m an Arab Muslim living the time Muhammad and we’re going into battle and I go, wait a second, what happens if I die? I don’t get the treasures. I don’t get the women that we take from this village.

(00:35:25):
Muhammad’s got a big problem. He’s like, no, no, no. Okay. Gosh, what am I going to do? You don’t want these. There’s virgins in heaven. They’re even better. Die in this battle, you’re going to get something much, much better. And the beautiful thing is Muhammad never asked to actually come good on his promise, but it caters to the flesh of men.

(00:35:44):
And this is the true face of Islam. And this is the problem is it’s not a compatible religion with Christian Judeo values in any sense. And it wants to conquer Christian Judeo values. Now we’re seeing this happening in America. It’s slowly starting. We’re seeing it happen in Dallas. We’re seeing Islam being very normalized throughout America. And I want to be very, very clear here. I have no problem with an Arab or a person who is a Muslim. I don’t have a problem with you. My beef is with what you believe, your ideology. So we have this expression in Christianity. I don’t hate the sinner. I hate the sin. Right? Yeah. Beautiful. I’ll use that. I don’t hate the Muslim. I hate Islam because I know Islam is from the devil and I know it’s corrupting this Muslim to be separated from the one true God, but more than that, to do the worst, most despicable things possible, which will destroy the true identity of what we should be as image barriers of God.

(00:36:46):
So I must hate it. Paul would’ve hated it. Peter would’ve hated it. Jesus would hate what Islam teaches, what it preaches and the fruits that it bears.

David (00:37:00):
What has your experience been with Islam? Because you speak about it as someone who’s known it, experienced it, maybe read it. So is this someone watching this, do you just watch YouTube videos, anti-

Nate (00:37:14):
There’s some great people who really go into depth on what the Quran teaches-

David (00:37:18):
And I just want to tell you about your story, like you growing up.

Nate (00:37:20):
Yeah, I grew up in a very, very Muslim community. So I’m not speaking from one that is reading the Quran or viewing it from the outside. I lived it on the inside. My next door neighbor in 2016 was arrested with ISIS. He was returned to Australia and in 2024, he murdered his wife to death, 50 times from what the police report says, but it’s essentially to the face. Devout Muslim, radicalized Muslim, but I’ve seen what they’re capable of. And I often say this, to be a good person in Islam, you can’t practice your religion. To be a good person in Christianity, you must practice your religion.

(00:38:06):
So

Nate (00:38:06):
In order for a Muslim to be good, they have to ignore the example and the lessons of Muhammad. And for a Christian to be good, we must follow and understand the lessons and the example of Jesus. And that’s

David (00:38:19):
Different. And you said deny our flesh versus-

Nate (00:38:21):
Yeah, we’ve got to deny. Yeah. Yeah. But Islam is becoming very, very popular. And there’s a strategy to that from the Islamic world, particularly Qatar, but also I understand why it’s popular, particularly with men, because you don’t really have to change and you still get to keep all of the pride, the ego, the … I guess I would say what we would often say is the real toxic nature of the-

David (00:38:54):
The dominance. Yeah.

Nate (00:38:54):
The

David (00:38:55):
Dominance. The strength, the rage.

Nate (00:38:57):
Yes. All those things. And everything can be justified.

David (00:39:00):
Well, and it would elevate it to a positive. So like rage and

Nate (00:39:04):
Dominating. Violence. And that’s why it’s like when you look at the life of Muhammad, it’s interesting because I think the way Muhammad lived and the way his message spread is very similar to our Islam spreads in our world today. So when Muhammad started off, first of all, he thought he was being attacked by something that was not of God. And he ran away from the cave where this angel, supposedly Gabriel, gave him these visions. But when we read the accounts of what Gabriel does with Muhammad in this cave and we read the accounts of Gabriel’s interactions with Mary or with Zachariah or with Daniel,

(00:39:47):
They’re

Nate (00:39:47):
Profoundly different. I mean, the Gabriel of the Quran is literally choking Muhammad, like challenging him to recite something when Muhammad’s like, “I don’t read. I don’t write.” Which I think is always interesting because the claim from the Muslims is Muhammad was illiterate. So he couldn’t read and he couldn’t write. And I’m like, perfect. No wonder he got all the Bible and the Torah wrong because he couldn’t read it and he couldn’t write it. So he’s just making stuff up from what he heard from others. Makes sense.

(00:40:15):
But when you look at Muhammad as a whole, the way he started his Quranic teachings was very friendly. And often what we hear from the Muslim world is, “Oh no, no, no. Islam is a beautiful, peaceful religion.” And they’ll often quote from the Quran and they’ll say, “T Quran says, you have your religion. I have mine.” In the sense of like, “Hey, we can all just get along.” Which is wonderful. It sounds nice, right? And that’s how Muhammad started. But Muhammad started with his messaging like that because he didn’t have power, he didn’t have influence and he didn’t have a military backing him. Now there’s two periods of Muhammad’s messaging. And the second period of his messaging is when he has influenced power and an army, and it’s a completely different message. It’s do not befriend the Christian and Jew, but they’re enemies with one another.

(00:41:09):
But in fact, submit them and force the Jizier on them, which was a tax that Muhammad said, Christians have to pay if we’re to live in a Muslim country. So we were subjected under their authority. He says, kill the disbeliever. He says, fight those who don’t believe in him or Allah or the last day. And so his whole messaging changes when he has power and influence. Now, when you think about it, that’s exactly the same as Islam. It will enter into a country saying, “Hey, we just want to live in peace and Islam is a beautiful, peaceful religion. And we also believe in Jesus and we love Jesus. We love all the prophets

(00:41:43):
Because they don’t have power and they don’t have influence.” But when they get power and influence, what do we see? Iraq, Iran, Syria, we see bloodshed, we see violence, we see minorities oppressed and persecuted. Ask the Kurds, ask the Yazidis, ask the Jews, ask the Christians in any Muslim majority country, you are a third class citizen. And if you do anything to insult or rival their religion, you’re on the chopping block. In fact, probably most of the stuff that I said here, the first response I will get from a Muslim who watches this is, “I’m going to kill you. ” You just prove my point. You just prove my point that the only thing that you have is violence and silencing those who oppose you because you don’t have truth. And that’s the interesting thing about it. That’s why the religion always turns to violence.

(00:42:39):
This is why we don’t need violence in Christianity because we have the gospel. We have the truth that’s being given to us by the one true God who sent his son into the world. I don’t need to beat you up.

David (00:42:52):
I

Nate (00:42:52):
Don’t need to silence you. I just need to reveal the gospel to you.

David (00:42:55):
It’s like the quote, those who have the truth, pound the truth, and those who don’t have the truth pound the table.

Nate (00:43:00):
Yeah, exactly. And so when you’re tracking through this, I think one thing that’s really important for a Christian today is to learn the truth of what Islam is. Not just, oh, it’s another religion, but really need to learn it because this is a battlefield

(00:43:16):
And they’re in the business of winning. They will convert churches. They will convert believers. They want Sharia law in the country. They want to remove the Christmas tree and they want to replace it with Ayid or Ramadan. They are all about conquering and they have more children than every other people group, so they’re going to win by birth rates. And so it’s a battle. And unfortunately, Christians, we’ve become so lazy and so tolerant of false belief systems and false ideologies that we’re opening the door for a very, very dangerous cancer. Muhammad, for those who don’t know, just to give you an examples of the kind of person that they follow, he married a six-year-old and he consummated that marriage when she was nine. So he slept with a nine-year-old. His nephew’s wife, he found attractive, and so his nephew divorced his wife, so Muhammad could have her, and then Muhammad will go and claim, “No, God told me to do this.

(00:44:21):
” And so this is the kind of person that we’re dealing with where he’s saying, “Oh, God told me to do these things.” And another great example is according to the Quran and the hypocrisy of Muhammad is you’re only allowed to have four wives in Islam. So you’re not allowed to have as many as you want. It’s strictly four. Muhammad had 11. So he’s not even following the rules.

(00:44:43):
And so even identifying him as a prophet is almost insulting to everything Jews and Christians believe. This was a warlord and Islam, I do believe, is the devil’s religion to come and conquer the world. Now, the other thing I think how it plays into how we understand the Bible is we know that the second coming of Christ is very different to his first visitation. His first visitation had a very clear and specific goal. It had to deal with a very specific enemy and the enemy was us and our sin.

(00:45:21):
So sin was the problem on the first visitation and sin needed to be dealt with. And it’s interesting because from a Jewish point of view and a Jewish thought, they often talk about the idea of Mashia and they say that there’s two Mashias. There’s the son of Joseph and they call him Ben Yosif. And then they have another Mashia, which they say is son of David and Ben David. And so what’s interesting is they had this idea of these two Messiahs. And we know based on the gospels that people were running around calling Yeshua, what?

David (00:45:54):
Ben David.

Nate (00:45:55):
Ben Devid.

David (00:45:56):
Yeah. Son of David.

Nate (00:45:57):
Son of David, son of David, right? Even with the blind man, son of David, son of David. He’s running to him to try and be healed. Their idea of the Messiah 2000 years ago was a conquering king.

David (00:46:10):
Yeah, which scripture does talk about. Absolutely. In the line of David, warrior king, peace on Jerusalem. Absolutely. Ruling and reigning on his throne.

Nate (00:46:18):
Absolutely. But then you have this problem because Jewish thought also has this idea of Ben Joseph. Now, Joseph is obviously the Joseph that’s connected to the Genesis story. The favorite son of Jacob, the one that he makes a coat for that he puts in charge of his brothers, the one whose brothers hate, who reject him, who throw him into a pit,

David (00:46:38):
The suffering servant kind of.

Nate (00:46:40):
Yes, the suffering servant who will go into Egypt, get into a second in charge of all of Egypt. And as the Torah tells us, Joseph, because of what he did, saved the world, right? Yeah,

David (00:46:53):
It wasn’t just Israel.

Nate (00:46:54):
Wasn’t just Israel. He saved the world from the famine. And so here’s the interesting thing, and this is what is incredible about the narrative of God and the story of God and how he presents it. Ben Joseph came. Jesus came with a very, very specific goal on his first visitation to save the world. He’s done that. And in fact, in the book of Zachariah, there’s only one place in all of scripture where God says, “I’m going to deal with something in one single day. One single day, I’m going to do something.” It’s the only time I found in scripture where God says, “In one single day, I’m going to do this. ” And in Zechariah, God says, “I’m going to deal with the inequity of this land in one single day.” And that’s what Jesus does on the cross. In one single day, in one single moment of time where blood was shed, our sins were paid for in one single day.

(00:47:46):
But here’s what’s interesting. So Ben Joseph has come, which means we still haven’t had Son of David, conquering King, a king to fight an enemy. And David fought.

David (00:47:58):
In

Nate (00:47:58):
Fact, David was not allowed to build the temple. Why?

David (00:48:03):
Because he had too much war in his hands.

Nate (00:48:04):
He had too much blood on his hands because there was going to be, it was a bloody battle. But David is the model that the Jewish people were waiting for 2,000 years ago because their idea was, “Well, the Romans are oppressing us. Our enemies are trying to destroy us. We need a conquering king.” And it’s fascinating because even John the Baptist was on the same framework. And this is why he sends his disciples to go and ask Jesus while he’s teaching. And he says, “John the Baptist is in prison and he’s brought this question, are you the one to come or should we be expecting someone else? Why?” Because we’re like, “Conquering King. I shouldn’t be in prison. Herod shouldn’t be ruling.

(00:48:47):
The

Nate (00:48:47):
Romans should be crushed, everlasting peace and righteousness.” And like, “Isn’t this supposed to happen?” And obviously Yeshua sends him away saying, “This is what I’ve done.” Listing out the checklist of the miracles of Messiah. But here’s what’s important, and this is where I think we’re zoning in on. When Yeshua comes back as son of David, the conquering king, he’s got an enemy to fight.

David (00:49:09):
And Christians will be familiar with that in revelation. Revelation. You see revelation and you’re like, whoa.

Nate (00:49:14):
Yeah. Revelation is a battle and there is going to be blood that’s going to be spilled, but more than that, there are going to be people who oppose the return of the Messiah. Now, who in their right mind would oppose the son of God? Who?

(00:49:27):
Yeah.

Nate (00:49:27):
And here’s what’s interesting. Islamic eschatology mirrors in the opposite direction what we believe. And so a Muslim, if they follow the Quran and if they follow what the teachings of Muhammad are, that they’re going to be so convinced that the true son of God is actually not the son of God and an enemy, they’re going to fight him and they’re going to fight you sure because they’re so convinced by who? The devil.

David (00:49:59):
So what’s their eschatology?

Nate (00:50:00):
Their eschatology is that they have this … So the false prophet and the antichrist that we have in our Bible. In revelation, yeah. They have these two Muslim figures who are the false Christ and the false prophet on their side. So they have a prophet and this like … And they say when Jesus comes back, because they also believe he’s coming back, he’s going to come and break all the crosses. He’s going to break all the crosses and he’s going to fight the Christians. So their antichrist they think is their Christ and the real Christ is going to fight their antichrist and this is going to be a head-to-head battle. And so I used to struggle with that because I was like, “Man, how could people be so stupid to fight Jesus?”

(00:50:48):
And I

Nate (00:50:49):
Was like, “Oh wow, the devil’s working overtime right now.” He’s created a religion. He’s created a belief system and he’s set up a system that will make people believe that they are serving God when they’re really serving him. And that’s what’s interesting. This is not just a conspiracy theory. This is not something that’s just like, “Oh, this is the only way it can happen. It’s going to be the people of God against the religion of Islam.” And that’s why I think it’s so important for us as those who live in America to call out what Islam really is

(00:51:26):
Because it’s not going to ever coexist. And I think it’s really important for Christians to start reading and learning the Quran because what they tell you is not what the truth of the Quran really is presenting. And I’ll give you another example of this. In Surahive, there’s a verse that says, if you kill one person, it’s like killing all of humanity. And if you save one person, it’s like saving all of humanity, right? Sounds nice. I like it. Yeah. I could get on board with that. What they leave out is the verses that follow straight after that.

(00:51:57):
There’s a justification for murder in Islam. If you reject Muhammad, if you reject Allah, and if you reject the last day, they’re free to kill you. And they say, if you bring corruption into the land, right? So if you bring corruption into land, all bets are off. We can kill you. Now, here’s the problem. How does a Muslim define corruption in the land if you’re a non-Muslim? So you and I, according to their definition, we’re bringing corruption into the land because we’re believing in a false identity of Jesus and thus we deserve death. And that’s straight after the verse that they talk about where it’s like, this is so beautiful. You kill one person, you kill all people. It’s like, no, that’s a lie. They’re deceiving us because what’s really at the heart of that is if you don’t become a Muslim, we have the right to kill you.

(00:52:41):
That’s scary.

(00:52:42):
And that’s proof because I mean, what’s happening in Iran right now is I think some of the best evidence of how Islam is not compatible with people who are out of the Arab nations. Because remember, Ishmael was an Arab and the people in Iran, they’re Persian and they’re rejecting Islam right now. In fact, they’re burning mosques and they’re saying, “We don’t want these Mullahs running our country anymore. And what is the Islamic Republic doing? Killing people on the street.” The last report that I saw was 2,000 people have been murdered in the street by the Islamic Republic and in their eyes, justified. Why? Because you’re corrupting the land. And

(00:53:24):
This is the reality, and it’s not a comfortable one, but people always say the Old Testament, God was angry that was fighting in the world. The Ea Testament is all just like everything gets along. Grace. Love. Wow, you’re about to get shocked at how this world ends because remember what Yeshua says to his disciples, he says, “Just as it was in the time of Noah, so it will be at the second coming of the Son of Man.” Now, if we go back to the story of Noah, Noah’s time period is classified and defined by God with one word twice. Violence flooded the land. Violence. Said wickedness was on their mind all the time. That’s where we’re going to be at the return of the Messiah. Now, how does that wickedness enter into this world? Islam. Can’t be through Christianity and Judaism because that’s not in our framework.

(00:54:19):
It has to be through the religion of Islam.

David (00:54:22):
Wow.

Nate (00:54:23):
And who joins with the Muslims in 2026? The leftists. Why? Because they’re also a godless people. You see, when the left and Muslims come together, it almost seems like contradictory.

David (00:54:34):
Yeah, because you’re like, how can a pro LGBTQ peace, love, accept everybody, partner with the ones who-

Nate (00:54:44):
Okay, to beat my wife, throw the homosexuals off the top of buildings. Yeah. It doesn’t work. Unless they have commonality in their godlessness.

(00:54:55):
Yeah.

Nate (00:54:55):
Because they’re both godless. Islam is godless. The leftists are godless. So they can join forces to fight against the godly.

David (00:55:04):
Yeah. And that’s exactly what

Nate (00:55:05):
We’re seeing.

David (00:55:06):
I think it was Psalm. I read it a couple days ago.

Nate (00:55:09):
I feel like I’m going to make a lot of fatwas for this podcast. And if you don’t know what a fight wire is, it’s like when the Muslim councils decide to put another target on your head.

David (00:55:20):
Oh boy. Well, we’ll continue to pray. This scripture, I read this in our church. Psalm 83, David says, or the psalmist says, “Oh God, do not keep silence. Do not hold your peace or be still, oh God, for behold your enemies make an uproar those who hate you. ” So who do they hate?

Nate (00:55:47):
God.

David (00:55:47):
God. They’ve raised their heads. They lay crafty plans against your people. They consult together against your treasured ones. They say, “Come let us wipe out as a nation. Let the name of Israel be remembered no more.”

(00:56:03):
Wow.

David (00:56:04):
“For they conspire with one accord against you, they make a covenant.” So it’s answering this question of where does the anti-Israel, antisemitism, anti-Jewish theology come from? And why is it coming with, like you said, both of those sides? Because the woke and the Islam side teamed up and who did they attack first? Israel. Because like you said, the godlessness, who are the spirit behind that? Who is the spirit hating? God.

Nate (00:56:38):
And you know what’s interesting? They attack Israel and the Jewish people more than they attack us as Christians right now because the Jewish people in Israel prove God more than we do right now, which is a tragic thing to say.

David (00:56:53):
And there’s also to the Jew first and then to the Gentile. Yeah, truth.

Nate (00:56:56):
Yeah. So we’re next in line

David (00:56:58):
For sure. It’s like a biblical

Nate (00:56:59):
Mandate. But they prove the existence of the God of Israel. They prove it. Their very existence in return to the land proves it, which means Islam is losing. Allah is faking it.

David (00:57:09):
And they’re the only people group that God attached his very identity to.

Nate (00:57:14):
Absolutely. And also remember this, in the Torah and the Tana, God has a very, very identifiable name that he gives to Moses, right?

(00:57:23):
Yeah.

Nate (00:57:24):
And he has a name, a personal name. And more than that, we know that Yeshua will be the name above all names. So the specific name is really, really important. And maybe you’ve heard this podcast or you heard the last podcast and sometimes I’ll jump between Jesus and Yeshua. I want to be helpful to people. I prefer to say Yeshua. Jesus is not his name. And I understand how we got there as we moved from the Greek to the Latin

David (00:57:50):
And- Yeah. And sometimes you’re just connecting it because

Nate (00:57:52):
People are

David (00:57:52):
Like Yeshua.

Nate (00:57:53):
Because they’re not sure. Yeah, exactly. But I think it’s so important and I think it’s more important this generation, we start actually saying Yeshua and I’ll tell you why. Because in Hebrew, in the language, Yeshua literally means salvation. That’s what Yeshua means. And when you think about it, his name is salvation. Yeah. That’s powerful. And names are very, very important. And I was at a synagogue a couple of weeks ago after the tragedy that happened in Bondi and I was with the Jewish community there and there was a rabbi speaking. And at the very end of his talk, he said, “Yeshua is coming.” Yeshua is coming. Because he’s saying to his community, salvation is coming.

(00:58:34):
Yeah.

Nate (00:58:34):
And you know what I

(00:58:35):
Said?

Nate (00:58:36):
Amen.

(00:58:36):
Amen.

Nate (00:58:38):
Amen. I can get on this train 100%. I’m in. Yeah. But that’s the beautiful thing. But you start to realize every single day a Jewish believer will say Yeshua’s name in their daily prayer every day. Now, the alternate of that, if you’re still not sure about Islam is Allah. It’s just a generic name for God. Generic, no name. And the interesting thing about the Quran and Islam and its thought process, it’s the claim that it makes, and I think this is really important too, if we have time, is why is it so important that we have this idea of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit? And why does Islam so strictly against the son of God and so strictly against Allah having any partners? In fact, the Quran says he has no partners, nothing. He’s by himself. He’s singular. And so this is the one thing that I often ask Muslims.

(00:59:32):
I said, “Okay, what did Allah love before creation? What did he love?” Now, the obvious answer is nothing because you can’t love yourself. Now, when you understand the idea of love, and if you did love yourself, then you’re a narcissist.

(00:59:52):
The way God has revealed his being to us proves the most powerful thing that John will tap into in the back end of the book. Now, the very first time From that we hear, God is love is at the back end of the book. Why is that? Because love is revealed through the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit. But it’s the final revelation that’s the most important revelation for us as believers to understand. The creator of the universe is also the author and giver of love, but he could love and was capable of love before creation. See, Allah’s incapable of love. Not only is he generic, but he’s got no one else to operate with before creation. That means he needed to create in order to love, which means he would’ve had to learn how to love. Whereas our God was in a perfect community within himself, just as Yeshua says, “Return me to the glory I had with you before the creation of the world.” God was in a loving relationship with the son, the spirit.

(01:00:50):
It was a community of love which created out of love for love to show love. And that’s why the revelation of the son of God is so powerful because it proves God is love because he didn’t need creation.

(01:01:05):
He was love. And when love exists, it’s the most powerful force in the world. So to any Muslim who’s maybe stumbled on this or any person who has a heart for them, I want you to understand this. I want them to know what love is. Love has been stolen from them by the devil, believing in a false God with a generic name that is incapable of love. And that’s why we see the fruits of Islam as terrorism, violence, hatred. But to set them free, they need to understand what love is. And the only way you understand love is through the God of the Bible who revealed this deep love by offering up his only son so that we might have life. But this is the fight. And as long as we allow belief systems like this to exist, we’re going to have to bear the pain of what they’re going to bring into our communities.

(01:01:54):
We’re going to see more violence, more terrorism, more hatred. No world with Islam in it gets better. No world. And the Middle East is a perfect example of that. And again, the devil is running out of time. He knows that. We know that. He knows the ending just as much as we do. So which means his battle is not to conquer God. His battle is to how many can I take with me? And right now he has two billion people who bow down five times a day worshiping him. The generic, fake, false God that went to Muhammad in a cave, presenting himself as an angel of light to deceive, distort, and to come to kill the true people of God, the Jewish people.

David (01:02:46):
Wow. Now, when someone’s listening to this and they’re shook, you’re saying things that most Christians would not say or know to say. How do you then turn around and love your Arab neighbor? How do you turn around and foster a sense of peace? Obviously you can talk about Israel, but even for the Christian living in America, what does that tension look like?

Nate (01:03:20):
Yeah. Well, I think the one thing that I think is so important is if you really love your Muslim brother or sister or neighbor, you need to learn their book so well that you can bring them out of it. If you love them, if you really care about them, if you just want them to be as they are, you don’t love them. You don’t care about them. You need to learn their book and you need to understand their book so much so that you can bring them out of it.

(01:03:48):
Yeah.

Nate (01:03:49):
That’s where the love story is. That’s where the work is. Yeshua often talks about the harvest is plenty, but the work is a few. There’s a lot of work to do. And there is a way to connect and bring Muslims out of it, but it doesn’t work by you just saying, “Oh, your religion’s beautiful and your religion’s amazing. And yes, even though you don’t accept Jesus and you claim he’s just a prophet.” The other thing is, I’ll say this, there’s a big difference between the Jews and the Muslims. Jewish people may not accept Yeshua as the Messiah, but they still have a Messiah theology that fits right into ours. The Muslims actually in their own religious text deny the divinity of the Messiah after he’s come.

(01:04:35):
That’s so much worse to me. The Jewish people haven’t written a new holy text that denies the divinity of the Messiah. And some might say, “Oh, the Tulm of the Tulman.” The Talmud’s not a religious text. It’s not a holy text. It’s not an inspired text. It’s a bunch of different opinions from different rabbis arguing over certain ideas. And any Talmud reference that people often make about Yeshua isn’t clear that it’s actually about him. It’s Yeshu, and sometimes it doesn’t fit in the timeline. And even if it is, it’s not a holy text. At the end of the day, their text, what they follow is the Torah and the Tanakh, and it points to Yeshua. And my job is to help them see that too. But my job with the Muslim is to get them as far away from the Quran and the lies of Muhammad as possible.

(01:05:20):
Yeah. Very different tasks. One, I’m revealing the truth of the Messiah and the other one I’m saving and bringing into the Messiah.

David (01:05:28):
Yeah. So if someone were to say, “Okay, you’re being very maybe hostile towards Islam.” Are you bringing that same fire to Israel, this nation that doesn’t believe in Jesus … I’ve seen videos where Orthodox rabbis will spit on a cross and they’ll spit on nuns or Catholic priests walking down Jerusalem.

Nate (01:05:56):
First of all, I’ll say this, I’d rather be spit on them beheaded.

(01:06:00):
First of all, fair. Okay.

Nate (01:06:01):
So sure. And I’ve actually been spit on by a religious Jew, not in Israel actually, not in Israel. It was actually in New York. And sure, whatever. Forgive them, Father, they know what they do. But at the end of the day, I would rather that scenario because I know based on the things I’ve just said now, Muslims will be happy to chop my head off. Happy to. And they’ll think they’re doing the right thing by Allah. There’s a very, very big difference between the two. The other thing I would say is this, again, we have to be hostile to false religions. Judaism is not false. There’s nothing in the Torah that denies Yeshua. The Quran is flooded with denials. They’re so different and I don’t treat those two worlds the same. In order to convince the Jew, I must make them jealous. In order to convince the Muslim, I must prove Muhammad’s false, but that comes at the risk of my own life because based on their own belief system, if I insult their prophet, I deserve death.

(01:07:08):
But for anyone watching this, that should be a massive alarm bell. No Jew is going to hunt me down and find me because I said I believe in Jesus Messiah and I don’t accept the Talmud.

(01:07:27):
No Jews going to do that. In fact, the conversations I have with Jews often is they’re incredible and they’re inspiring and we’re so close. They’re 99.9% there. That’s the difference, right? Where Muslims are 0% there. They have no theology and they have one prophet who was not only a pedophile in our current state of the world, but also a warlord, a murderer. And he even claimed himself that he was … There’s these things called the Satanic verses of the Quran, where Muhammad says, “No, I was possessed.”

(01:08:00):
So

Nate (01:08:01):
We’re dealing with very, very different people. And I think that’s where my approach comes very, very differently between the Jew and the Arab Muslim. But I think again, if you really love the Muslim world and you feel, and maybe this is the moment where a Christian stands up, if you feel you can do a better job than me at bringing Muslims to the truth, do it.

(01:08:25):
Yeah.

Nate (01:08:25):
Get them. I’d love for you to do that. I want them to meet Jesus too, and I want them to experience the fullness of what true Christianity is, freedom from the oppression and darkness of Islam. And so I hope that people watch this and go, “You know what? I’m going to do a much better job than Nate does with the Muslims.” I’ll be like, “Amen.” Maybe that’s not my mission field. But at least I’ve put maybe a fire inside of someone saying, “Okay, I want to focus on them.” I really feel like I’m called to share what true Christianity looks like to the Jewish

(01:08:59):
World. And I think a lot of that has to do with my ability to understand the Torah, the Tanaka and the Jewish people and their circumstances and meet them where they are. But this is what we have to do for all people, it could be Hindus, could be Buddhists, could be atheists. We have a very, very difficult task as Christians. We have to know the people we’re talking to and understand their framework in order to present to them the best possible chance for them to understand the truth of the gospel and the truth of who Jesus is.

David (01:09:30):
Yeah. Man. Well, you’ve opened up a can of worms and- Oh yeah, this is going to be- A can of comments, I’m sure too. Yeah. I’d

Nate (01:09:39):
Be

David (01:09:39):
Interested to read the

Nate (01:09:40):
Comments on this one. But I’ll finish by saying this. I’ve had a lot of Muslims come to faith. Another reason why Islam would want to kill me, right? Because the penalty for leaving Islam is death. I have a few people in Muslim majority countries that have come- And

David (01:09:59):
They would say that’s under Sharia law though right?

Nate (01:10:01):
Undershirt. Yeah. And where these people live is under Sharia law. And I’ve had some incredible moments where Muslims have come to faith and they’ve come to accept that Yeshua is the one true Messiah and the God of creation. And I’ve had incredible encounters and moments where Muslims have become believers because of what I was doing. And sometimes people might go, “Oh, that’s so harsh.” But at the same time, I’ve really invested in some people and I have one incredible story. I can’t say what country she’s from just for her own safety and

David (01:10:36):
I

Nate (01:10:36):
Never want to risk anyone, but she became a believer and she had to hide her Bible under her bed. And it was incredible because when she became a believer, she originally challenged me in my DMs and she said, “You don’t know anything about Islam, da, da, da, da, da.” And the message I sent back to her was quite opposite to how most Christians would operate. I said, “Look, Christianity’s not for you. And one of the most amazing things I know about my Messiah, he says, My sheep know my voice. So if you can’t hear him, you’re just not one of his.” And I said, “Good luck.” And I left her. About a month later, she messages me again and she said, “It really triggered me what you said.” So I went and read where that was found in the gospel of John and I became a believer.

(01:11:29):
And I was like, “Oh.”

David (01:11:31):
You were like, “Oh, that wasn’t necessarily a

Nate (01:11:34):
Strategy.” And that’s the amazing thing. Now what was really interesting about her story was when she became a believer, she lives in a country where there’s no other believers.

(01:11:43):
And I was like, “Oh man, this poor girl, she’s by herself now and she can’t tell her family, she can’t tell her friends.” I was like, “What am I going to do? ” And I really felt obligated to her. I’m like, “I’ve got to be there for her.” So I would chat to her and I was just praying to God, how can I help this girl? And all of a sudden I remembered, strangely enough, a woman that was a missionary that messaged me and thanked me for the work I was doing against Islam was in that country. And I just remember her name just popped up in my mind. I was like, “Oh, I got to reach out to her.”

(01:12:20):
So

Nate (01:12:20):
I reached out to her and I said, “Hey, such a strange request. I think I just had a girl convert from Islam to Christianity in your country and she has no support.” And so she said, “Amazing. If she’s comfortable, because it’s very risky, send me her name or whatever and we can connect her with the underground church.” And so they connected her with the underground church in this country and I will never forget the day where she got baptized and they put me on … I’m going to cry. They put me on FaceTime and I watched her baptism. And I was like, wow, what credit do I take for it? None. None. It was all God. He coordinated, he called her, he put the right thing in my mouth that would challenge her to go back and read. Another girl converted to Christianity in a very, very similar manner in another country.

(01:13:14):
And I then ultimately connected these two girls. They were both from very different countries, but both converted to Christianity and they formed this really amazing friendship because they were experiencing the same thing. And I was just watching this like, wow, God, this is amazing. Now imagine if that had just been like, Islam is

(01:13:34):
… It doesn’t work, right? There’s a boldness. And the one thing I know about me as a person is I will back up my love for people with my conviction and the truth of the gospel and the denial of false religions. And I will back it up with love. And so that’s where I would say if anyone says, “Oh, you’re a little bit harsh.” I was like, “Man, if you only knew what I was doing behind the scenes, and if you only understood the glory of what God is doing, then you would probably be like, I want in.

David (01:14:04):
” And if the reason that a Christian is unable to talk about not an Arab person, but Islam as an idea, like you said, don’t hate the sin or hate the sin, then if what’s keeping you from that is fear, then we’re pretty-

Nate (01:14:22):
Exactly.

David (01:14:23):
It’s pretty clearly told not to operate in fear. A lot

Nate (01:14:24):
Of Christians operate with the false sense of … I love people and I’m just going to love them and I’m never going to challenge them on their belief systems, but it’s not because they love them, it’s because they love being loved by people. And so we actually put being accepted by the world before accepting the fact that we’re going to have to step into some very, very uncomfortable spaces. Yeah, that’s powerful. And that’s kind of the real challenge. A lot of Christianities just love people. And I was like, no, no, no, no. And this is the other thing. I mean, I’ve stepped out for Israel, but I’ve had some unbelievable conversations with Jewish people about the Messiah because of what I’ve done,

(01:15:10):
Because of what I’ve done. And to be fair, I went into Iraq, I’ve gone into a lot of places and I’ve really … I’ll walk the walk. I won’t just talk the talk. And I think that’s kind of the difference between me and a lot of people. And I spend hours and hours studying and figuring out what Islam really believes in. Why? Because I love the Arabs. I want them to be free from that. So I would actually argue that the time and effort that I’ve spent actually proves that I love them far more than you do. You might be nice to them, but I’m seeking ways to sort out their salvation.

David (01:15:51):
Yeah. It’s like the difference between peace and just a false sense of calm.

Nate (01:15:57):
Well, Christians will often say, “Oh, we’ve got to be peacekeepers.” And I was like, he said, “Peacemakers.” And there’s a big difference between a peacekeeper and a peacemaker. A peacekeeper is like, “Hey, everybody, let’s just get along.” A peacemaker is, “I’m going to build a bridge, whatever I have to do that gets you to the Messiah.” And that’s going to be messy, that’s going to be hard work. And sometimes it’s going to be very, very uncomfortable. And it’s going

David (01:16:22):
To have consequences. And

Nate (01:16:23):
There’s going to be consequences, but I’m going to do it. And so if I’m going to reconcile a broken people with a perfect God, there’s work involved. And sometimes it’s not pretty.

David (01:16:35):
Yeah. And you have to work on yourself as much as you work on anybody else. And that’s the humility and the denying of self and- Yeah, for sure. But people don’t see that.

Nate (01:16:44):
And full disclosure, maybe I’m not getting it right every single time.

David (01:16:48):
Well, yeah, none of us are getting it right every single time.

Nate (01:16:50):
But I will say this,

David (01:16:51):
I’m in the

Nate (01:16:51):
Fight.

David (01:16:52):
Yeah. Well, and if you’re backing it up with the word, that’s the foundation. We might get something wrong in an application or in a tone or in a direction, but if it’s coming from the foundation-

Nate (01:17:06):
If you were sitting in a podcast with the apostle Paul right now, he’d be ripping apart Islam. I’m not Jay. He’d be ripping it apart.

(01:17:13):
He’d be ripping apart the church. He’d be ripping apart a lot of things. He’s like, “Let me finish my letter to the Corinthians.” Letters coming in heart. She rigges me. His text messages would be so long. Well, and it’s funny that even Paul says to

David (01:17:29):
Himself, the claim against him was that when I come, I’m all love and when I’m writing, it’s all for Roches.

Nate (01:17:38):
I’m Muslim like, “Hey, let’s sit down. Let’s talk about the Quran. Come on, tell me. ”

David (01:17:41):
Yeah, because you said there’s a difference between the ideology and the person. We’re not saying that this person- I

Nate (01:17:47):
Love people. I really do love people, but you cannot love ideas that contradict counter and ultimately come to attack what you believe. You can’t. Because then you’re just, what are you? You fall on yourself.

David (01:18:05):
Well, this has been eyeopening for me and I’m sure for many others. And the conviction that you lead with, that you live with, I think is what has been missing in the church. It’s been missing in what they often call the evangelicish Christianity, which is, it’s like you said, the peacekeeper, not the peacemaker, it’s the coexisting Christian. It’s the, let’s water things down so that anyone can accept that. Chris

Nate (01:18:36):
Christianity is not comfortable.

(01:18:38):
And if you want to be comfortable, you’ve picked the wrong belief system. I want to finish with one thing because I think it’s important, finish on a positive note. I spoke at a Jewish event back in June of last year, and it was during the time where there was still many hostages in Gaza. And one of the young girls in attendance was a girl by the name of Noah Aragamani. She was taken hostage on the back of her motorcycle into Gaza at the Nova Festival. She was separated from her boyfriend. Yeah. A lot of people would recognize that her face. She was rescued by the IDF from a civilian family that was holding her captive in Gaza. They were very abusive to her. I’ve heard her stories privately about what happened during her time in captivity, which was just horrible. And God really rescued her.

(01:19:24):
And I remember one thing she said to me is she said the day that she was being rescued, she thanked God. She didn’t know what was going on. She said, “Thank you God for rescuing me today.” And that was the day they actually come and took her. She got back home in time to say goodbye to her dying mother who had cancer. She has an incredible story.

(01:19:39):
She’s a

Nate (01:19:39):
Very, very brave girl, but when she got rescued, her boyfriend still was there and she was separated from him from the beginning of October 7th. There was no proof of life, no idea whether he was dead or alive, no one knew anything. And I was speaking at an event in Toronto at a Jewish event and she was in the front row. And as I’m doing, I had a 15 minute speech that I was working through and I just got a prompt from the Holy Spirit to stop, look at her and say, “Noah, your boyfriend is coming home and the day he comes home, we’re going to dance, we’re going to celebrate that day.” And I just remember just having to tell her. And then I got back to my talk to the Jewish community. I finished and I kept in touch with Noah a lot.

(01:20:15):
We kept in touch and we would see each other when I went to Israel and I actually asked for a poster of her boyfriend, which I kept in my room. And every single morning I’d look at his face and every single night I would look at his face and I would make an intention to pray for him that

(01:20:28):
He would

Nate (01:20:28):
Come back. And so I was doing this behind the scenes and then the very last round of the living hostages, the list was released. And this was day 738 where they were finally released and he was on the list. And the first thing I thought was like praise God, Barukhashem as the Jewish people would say a blessing of God because we didn’t even know if he was dead or alive. But when I saw his name, I was like-

David (01:20:55):
There’s hope.

Nate (01:20:56):
There’s an answer to prayer. Wow, he’s alive. We don’t know what state he’s in, but like right now we’re just like leaning on this idea that he’s alive.

(01:21:03):
He came back, was reunited with his girlfriend who was just fighting so hard for him. She met with Trump. She met with the UN. She spoke in all these Jewish events all over the world. She just did not stop fighting for his release and the remaining hostages. And a couple of days after the release of these last round of hostages who were alive, I spoke at another event in Toronto and I spoke at this Jewish event and I went to this Shabbat dinner and this gentleman came up to me, a Jewish guy and he said, “I need to tell you something.” And I said, “Yeah, sure.” And he says, “I was at your Vancouver event a few months ago when you stopped, looked at Noah and said that your boyfriend’s coming home and we’re going to celebrate that day.” And he says, “I was really offended by what you did that day.

(01:21:50):
I felt very uncomfortable by how you did it. You spoke with so much confidence and you gave her, in my mind, false hope that we didn’t even know if he was dead or alive and I felt offended that you did that. ” And I was like,

(01:22:04):
“Okay.”

Nate (01:22:04):
Now this is after the fact that now he’s just come home. And then he said, “But I need to tell you that when she was reunited with Avi Natan, you were the first person I thought of in that moment, and I’ll tell you why.” He said, “You spoke with a faith that I’ve never seen before.” And I was like, “Oh, wow.” And he said, “It was amazing because you had this faith and it happened.” And I was like, “Well, that’s really cool.” And I said, “I believe in the miracles of God. I believe in the work that he’s doing. As a Christian, I’m a faithful person.”

(01:22:38):
Here’s what’s even more amazing. After I had that encounter, I flew back to Israel in kind of November, I think it was, because I was doing a tour, my last tour for the year with a group of Christians and I was in Tel Aviv and I get a message from Noah and she DMs me and says, “Hey, what are you doing?” I was like, “Oh, I’m in Tel Aviv, but I’m leaving tomorrow because I’m heading up to the Galilee.” And she says, “We’re having a big party for Avi Natan tonight. I want you to come.”

(01:23:02):
Got to dance.

Nate (01:23:02):
I was like, “Yeah.” So I went. I went to the party and I walked into the party and Noah’s there, some of the other hostages that were released there that I also, I prayed with their families. And I see Avi Natan and I say, “I have been looking at your face for seven months.” And now he’s like, “Now you see it. ” And I’m like, “You don’t have any idea about what we’ve been going through and I have no idea about what you’ve been going through, but I’m so happy that you’re here.” And so I stayed for about an hour or two. And then as I was leaving, I started to say goodbye to people that I knew and I felt really intentional that I wanted to say goodbye to Avina time. So I saw him, he was kind of like with his friends on this dance floor that they’d created to celebrate him being back.

(01:23:45):
And I went up to him and I just said, “Hey, I’m so happy you’re home and I’m so honored that this has been the happy ending that we’ve prayed for and asked for. ” And then he grabbed me and he said, “You’re not going anywhere until you dance with me for one more minute, one more minute.” And so I’m dancing with him and it’s not my kind of music. But the whole time I’m like, wow, God, you not only answered my prayer to keep him alive, to bring him home, to reunite him with his love, you also literally got me on a dance floor with him in a moment of time so that I could understand how much you care about the details and how powerful you are as a God, that if someone speaks something out in complete faith and boldness, you will do it for the glory of your name.

(01:24:45):
And when I have moments like that, I’m like, “What could stop us?”

(01:24:50):
I hope that there’s a Muslim watching this right now and he just drops to his knees and says, “I need that. ” Because what I have on the inside is nothing and I feel the death and I feel the unknown and I feel that I have no answer to whether I’m going to end up in hell or end up in this false paradise where I’m surrounded by virgins because I want that. I want that spirit of joy, that spirit of faith and that spirit of confidence that my God, the God of Israel, that sent his son has came and saved me and we’re going to be in a paradise that we don’t need sex, we don’t need virgins, we just need the presence of Jesus. And that’s all we desire. And my hope is that there’s Muslims watching this and they’re like, “I want that and I’m out.

(01:25:33):
” And that’s the power of what I believe in.

David (01:25:36):
Yeah. Man, me too. Praise God. Yeah. Well, thank you so much for coming on again and Sharon. I know we’re out of time. We shared last podcast, but how can people connect with you?

Nate (01:25:50):
Social media, Nate Buzz. I’m going to probably try and get back into some Bible teaching as I’ve spent two years with the war. If you would like to come on my tour in November of 2026, I’ll be doing a tour open to anybody who wants to just come and experience the land. I personally have been in the land probably 50 plus times. So I know Israel like the back of my hand and I always find that my tours are really, really impactful and meaningful for people who are really hungry for the truth of who the Jewish Jesus is. And yeah, that would be it. I’m launching a protein brand in Israel, but that’s very specific to the two short hits right now.

David (01:26:27):
Yeah. Okay. Well, thank you so much for being with us and tuning into another episode of the Covenant and Conflict Podcast. We will see you next time.