Why Israel is Key to Reaching the World

01:00:00.520 — 01:00:43.640 · Wayne
You can’t reach the world and you can’t have a worldwide impact if you don’t have Israel and the Jewish people in its proper perspective. I think it was like a Holy Spirit moment where our just like the, the, the blinders came off our eyes and we really began to see Israel in a new way. We saw in Ezekiel, you know, that is the nations which are all Arab nations around Israel as they begin to know the Lord.

So Israel will know the Lord. We saw these passages about first things about to that you first. And what were the implications of that? And so we came out of that with just a fresh heart and a love for, for, for, for the Jewish people. And we saw that the gospels to the Jew first, not just a historic priority, but we believe, you know, as a present priority.

01:00:51.960 — 01:01:20.430 · Nic
Hey, everybody, welcome back to another episode of the Covenant and Conflict podcast. My name is Nick Les Meister, and you might not have ever even seen me in this seat, but I am actually one of the people who helped launch this podcast with David Gear. What, two years ago? Almost now? I think it was. And I have a really special guest with me, one of my heroes, a spiritual father in my life, and that is doctor Pastor Wayne Wilkes.

Wayne, welcome back to the podcast.

01:01:20.470 — 01:01:21.670 · Wayne
Thank you so much, Nick.

01:01:21.710 — 01:01:23.830 · Nic
I think this is the first time you’ve been a guest, right?

01:01:23.870 — 01:01:29.110 · Wayne
Well, uh, maybe so I think I’ve done 1 or 2 of them, but, uh. Yeah, I’m a guess. So.

01:01:29.150 — 01:01:31.710 · Nic
Yeah. Well, welcome to the guest seat. Yes. Yeah.

01:01:31.750 — 01:01:32.310 · Wayne
Thank you so.

01:01:32.310 — 01:02:47.530 · Nic
Much. Wayne is here because we want to spend some time talking with you today about the history of how we really came to be sitting in these seats today, how the Gateway Center for Israel was established. And then, of course, we started the Covenant and Conflict podcast as a expression of the Gateway Center for Israel.

But it all really does start back. It goes back to Doctor Wayne and Bonnie Wilkes, and we want to walk you back through what some of that history is just conversationally. And here’s my hope and my prayer for you is that as we do that, um, you’re sitting there thinking probably many of you are followers of Jesus Yeshua, and you’re asking God, probably every day, Lord, let your will be done in my life and my prayer, and our prayer for you today would be that as we retell this story, that you could see how God is moving in your life and maybe whispering some things to you that could lead you to something that he wants to do in your life.

And you’ll see, as we walk through the story of how the Gateway Center for Israel came to be and the predecessor of Gateway Center for Israel, the Messianic Jewish Bible Institute, there were all little steps of faith that led to moments of impact. So this is really our prayer for you today, Wayne. And I know that that’s your prayer as well.

You’ve always been a champion of seeing God’s plans rereleased in people’s lives, including mine.

01:02:47.570 — 01:03:12.200 · Wayne
Thank you. Thank you. Nick. Well, as you prayed before with this podcast began of him, through him, to him are all things. And Sometimes it’s impossible to know the origins of something, and heaven will tell the the bigger story. Right. But, but we’re all trying to do our little parts of faith, right? So I’m glad we can tell our limited perspective view today.

01:03:12.240 — 01:04:53.990 · Nic
Yeah. Well, let’s let’s wind it back, Wayne. So we’ll start from where we are today. As as many listeners know, we are in a a very tense moment, I would say, in the space of Jewish-Christian relations, which is the world that we’re living in, where the Gateway Center for Israel exists, and that is that it’s a battle.

It really is. There’s there’s a lot of shifting ideology and shifting thoughts that make it difficult to advance a biblical understanding of Israel and the Jewish people. Obviously, the Jewish people every single year continue to be more hated, more persecuted, more attacked both in Israel and abroad.

But it always hasn’t been like this. There was a period of time where really the world at large, but then also followers of Jesus were seeing what God was doing and how his hand was on Israel and the Jewish people. And there was this great growth of Jewish Christian relations. Right. Christians interested in Jewish things, interested in relating to the Jewish people, supporting ministry to the Jewish people.

So that is really where your life enters the scene. Because if we wind it back to like the Six-Day War in June of 1967, many people look at that as really a supernatural move that God preserved Israel against 5 or 6 invading Arab armies. And it captured the world’s attention that this little fledgling country that just started, you know, 1948.

Now, while they’re victorious and I know that, you know, at that point, you were coming out of high school and going into college. And so walk us back to just where you were at in life, and let’s start the journey there and, and weave it into this story of what God was doing and how you decided I’m going to myself.

And then later, Bonnie, as well attach ourselves to what we saw God doing.

01:04:54.030 — 01:06:10.120 · Wayne
Well, it began with me at an altar in Amarillo, Texas, where I responded to a call for missions and the denomination I’d grown up in. We didn’t have any context for this going to the altar, but I knew I needed to do it. So I went up, knelt down, and said, Lord, I don’t know what you can do with my life, but I yield it to a mission’s calling.

And right after that, there was a pastor who had a real love for the Jewish people, and I just had a seed that began to grow in me, a love for the Jewish people. And I had also a special affinity to Eastern Europe. And, uh, so, uh, so I believe it started with a seed there. And then I had opportunities. I eventually landed at Shady Grove Church and became one of the pastors there.

And but I live for the missions trips. You know, I lived to go to other parts of the world. And so, um, this seed began to grow in me, and, uh, you know, I don’t know how how how far to to to go, Nick. But basically, uh, it it would soon culminate into a release into, you know, the maybe.

01:06:10.160 — 01:06:18.560 · Nic
Yeah. So this is let’s just give a timeline for everybody. We’re talking, uh, early 80s. Correct. Is really when you had this encounter where you yielded your life.

01:06:18.560 — 01:06:19.320 · Wayne
1982.

01:06:19.360 — 01:06:23.080 · Nic
To serving the Lord in 1982. Okay. The year I was born. Yeah.

01:06:23.640 — 01:06:24.080 · Wayne
That’s right.

01:06:24.120 — 01:06:27.160 · Nic
Yeah. Give us some context. Yeah. So, uh.

01:06:27.320 — 01:06:30.680 · Wayne
You were born. Yeah, I think we month you were born is when.

01:06:30.720 — 01:06:31.880 · Nic
What’s your November?

01:06:31.920 — 01:06:33.080 · Wayne
Yeah. November. Yeah.

01:06:33.080 — 01:06:41.400 · Nic
Yeah, yeah, there’s some interesting similarities. And you’re going to see this as we retell the story. The Lord is really enjoying Wayne and I and Tabitha and I, to Wayne and Bonnie.

01:06:41.560 — 01:06:43.920 · Wayne
Found all these aha moments. Absolutely.

01:06:43.960 — 01:07:19.510 · Nic
It’s been amazing. Which is the beauty of walking with the Lord. Is it? It’s such a relational thing to walk with the Lord and then step into his plans and purposes. And I think actually, Wayne, that’s ultimately as you stepped into then from a missions calling into Israel, it really was relational. You said you ended up at a local church.

Yeah. You got to know people. You got in deep relationship with them, and you began serving together and asking, God, what are you doing around the world? Yeah. And walk us through just what that was like being at that local church and and maybe touch a little bit too on Bonnie and how she intersected into this.

01:07:19.550 — 01:08:50.920 · Wayne
You know, I heard somebody say one time, find out what God is doing and attach yourself to it. And God was doing something special at Shady Grove. And also God was doing something special with the Jewish people. And I just had the faith and the desire. I wanted to really attach myself to this. And even before me, my wife was went with a group from Christ the Nation.

She was living on a kibbutz and, uh, as a volunteer and, um, uh, it was a tremendous experience for her. And she learned Hebrew. She’s there two and a half years with others who many of her friends are still in Israel that were on that kibbutz with her. So, uh, so and it began with her, where her mother taught her to love the Jewish people.

So we had a pastor, Shady Grove, who loved the Jewish people. I began to build friendships with people like Marty Waldman. Uh, Jonathan Bernice, you know, key fathers in the messianic movement. But God connected us sovereignly. So, you know, uh, these relationships proved, you know, God doesn’t waste anything.

And, uh, so anyway, that that began to be a relational connection that would, would keep on going for the future. Yeah. So this was that was in 82 when I came to Shady Grove, right before I got that seed in my heart back in Amarillo in 82. And then, uh, became an elder there in 88 and came on staff and, um, and that seed continued to grow.

01:08:50.960 — 01:09:31.040 · Nic
Yeah, and it was around this time, too, that the whole church really had a heart for missions. Yes. And y’all were really leaning in as a local church with a focus towards, um, sharing the good news about Jesus all over the world. Yes. And I remember you told me the story of how, um, there was someone came with a prophetic gift and shared with Shady Grove that God wanted to give a ministry gift to the local church.

Talk to us about that, because you had this growing heart for Israel. And then this person comes to kind of give this prophetic word. And it really didn’t seem, at least at face value, to line up with what was growing in your heart. Right?

01:09:31.080 — 01:12:24.640 · Wayne
Well, there was a at that time, it hadn’t solidified what I was called to do. We we had a heart for missions. But yes, Joy Dawson, who’s a real great mother in the kingdom of God, and she came and delivered this word to Shady Grove that God was giving us a ministry gift with a Muslim people and and but he would show us the strategy.

And so we began to do a number of different prayer journeys and other things in the Muslim world, and probably over a course of five years or so. And it didn’t have great, uh, fruit from it. But, you know, these were all our steps of faith. But God said he would show us the strategy. And in the meantime, yes, my heart continue to grow for the Jewish people.

We had some curriculum that was a little bit replacement theology, but it was innocent replacement theology. That was just the teaching and the church. We were part of the Restoration Movement, God restoring all things. Some of the teachings in those days were a little replacement theology. So anyway, we we I felt this need to lean in with Marty Waldman and others.

Hey, how can we how can we align our teaching in the church to more properly reflect this, this correct theology? So through all that, I began to grow in my understanding of the Jewish people. I began to see the scriptures in a new light, and we had an elders meeting where they gave me the platform to just let’s just go through scriptures and we just go through scriptures and read and begin to.

I think it was like a Holy Spirit moment where our just like the, the, the blinders came off our eyes and we really began to see Israel in a new way. We saw in Ezekiel, you know, that is the nations which are all Arab nations around Israel as they begin to know the Lord. So Israel will know the Lord. We saw these passages about first things about you that you first and what were the implications of that?

And so we came out of that with just a fresh heart and a love for, for, for, for the Jewish people. And we saw that the gospels, to the Jew first, not just a historic priority, but we believe, you know, as a present priority. So this began to be the strategy we felt, hey, let’s look in Ezekiel. You know, as Israel begins to know the Lord, so it affects the nations around.

And I’m not saying we don’t quit going to other nations and so forth, but this was the strategy God gave us. Hey, so we started giving 10% to the Jewish people of our missions money. We gave even more. We began to take an annual, uh, you know, trips to Israel. Uh, you know, our pastor was so supportive. It’s so important to have a senior pastor who who really has this heart.

And, uh, so, you know, he had this heart and really was a fertile ground for me to grow in. Our elders embrace this. And so, uh, this began to be the seedbed for, for for some new things that would be forthcoming.

01:12:24.680 — 01:13:46.700 · Nic
Yeah. So I, I just want to recap in this period two important things that I know we’ve stressed many times, you and I have relationally with other pastors around the world when we met with them. Um, but there’s this element of being on the mission of God, which is every follower of Jesus obviously enlists in the mission of God by then.

Wanting to share about him with the rest of the world. Right? This is the best thing that’s ever happened to us, and we’re called to be his disciples and bear his image in the in the world. So there’s the mission. But then there’s also this relational component, which we’ve talked about. And I know you’ve mentioned Rabbi Marty Waldman, who was here locally in Dallas leading a messianic Jewish congregation.

You’ve mentioned Jonathan Burns, who was really a leading, um, Jewish believer in Jesus sharing the good news all over the world. Doctor Dan Juster, also a messianic Jewish thinker. So there was this relational component that y’all were stewarding as a local church saying, we’ve got to learn from Messianic Jewish believers to understand what God’s doing.

But then also, there was this activated step of, we’re going to go and do we’re going to go to Israel. We’re going to sow into what God’s doing to live on mission. And so how when you were in those earlier phases, Wayne, how much did that really affect where now, sitting here in this chair today you are, however many 40 years later.

01:13:46.740 — 01:13:48.500 · Wayne
Yeah, 100%. I mean,

01:13:49.820 — 01:16:34.990 · Wayne
we had a deep conviction. Let’s stand with the Messianic Jewish movement. We look, we love all Israel, even the Jewish people that don’t believe in Yeshua. And we’re going to stand with them. We’re going to fight anti-Semitism and so forth. But for us, there was a real commitment. Hey, let’s pull a pull close to the Messianic Jewish community.

And I know that’s a bone in the throat of some in the Jewish community, but it wasn’t so much related to the Jewish community. It was the Messianic Jewish community at that point were considered like a cult in the Christian world. You know, so, you know, other churches just look at Marty Wolman and Baruch Hashem.

All these guys are, you know, what are they doing? So that was kind of more of my heart of compassion. I want to stand with these guys. I want to, you know, I don’t want as a Christian leader, I don’t want to turn my back on my Messianic Jewish friends here because I feel this is something the Holy Spirit is doing.

That was Pastor Owen’s heart, too, you know. So, anyway, um. Yeah. So these are people that God connected us to. And Jonathan at the time was leading a messianic congregation in Rochester. And back in the day, we didn’t have internet, right. So we used to have several Christian magazines. And I remember turning one of those Christian magazines and seeing a little bitty article that said, Trip to Israel, tour to Israel.

People just didn’t do that back then. And I remember being just my heart, man. I would give anything if I could go on a tour to Israel. It was a little advertisement and I called the number. Jonathan picked up the phone. Oh my word. And we just had a conversation. And that was the last. We had a conversation inquiring about the tour, and it wasn’t until several years later that I read were this phenomenal harvest was going on.

The former Soviet Union, Jonathan Burness. And I remember the guy that’s the guy I talked to. He had left his congregation in Rochester. God called him to the former Soviet Union, and he had a vision to start these big festivals. Communism had fallen. You know, communism had stripped the Jewish people of their bias against Jesus.

There was a great openness. And so when we heard about Jonathan, what he was doing, that’s when I presented to the to the, to the other brothers. I said, hey, let’s have him speak at our mission’s conference, which was going to be Israel, a key to the nations. That’s what we called it, because we just had this revelation ourselves.

It was a key. It was a key. I mean, you can’t reach the world and you can’t have a worldwide impact if you don’t have Israel and the Jewish people in its proper perspective and a relationship with Israel. So this so, so we invited Jonathan to come and he came and we made the connection. Hey. You were. Yeah. John said, I remember talking to you, you know, and that began the relationship there.

01:16:35.030 — 01:16:52.260 · Nic
Well, something I know something special happened at that conference akin to what happened to you in Amarillo in 1981. Right. So God puts this hunger for you to be used in the missions field to share the good news of Yeshua. And then in 1995, Jonathan comes to this missions conference. And what happened then?

01:16:52.300 — 01:18:41.390 · Wayne
Well, and if I may back up, just when we talk about the ways of God, about a year before Jonathan even came, we began to feel this unsettling, like God was preparing us for something new. Sometimes you know the nest for a little baby bird, you know, gets uncomfortable, you know, and they they’ve got to fly.

And we had a prophet that came through Shady Grove and they said to Bonnie and me, they said, you’re going to be healing if this comes over and over to me. He said, revelation 222, your healing leaves to the nations. He said, you need to fast and you pray. You need to get alone with God. And this weekend he said, and you need to let God give you scriptures that he’s speaking to you.

And then you need to take that scripture, and you need to begin to pray it for God to release whatever he wants to do, to release you, to be healing leaves to the nations. Bonnie and I took it seriously. We got away to our little prayer center. With those days, you could. You could spend the night there. And God gave us several scriptures, one being Psalm 67.

You know, God, be merciful to us and bless us, and cause his face to shine upon us, that your way may be known on earth in your salvation among all nations. You know, God bless us anyway we pray. We for one year we walked around that prayer center declaring the scriptures that God gave us and praying, God Almighty, bless us, God Almighty.

We didn’t know what that meant. We didn’t know where be. We didn’t know it was exclusively related to the Jewish people. We prayed and we prayed. And so I tell that to people who are listening to this podcast, you know, if you feel that unsettling, you know, lean in and let God give you scriptures and then begin to pray those scriptures and hold on to those scriptures.

And so that’s what we did. And so at this mission’s conference now, a year later,

01:18:43.150 — 01:19:39.700 · Wayne
um, Jonathan is speaking and he shows a video. And in the video, all these hands in a big festival in Saint Petersburg were raising their hands. All these Jewish people, excepting Yeshua and, um. And Bonnie and I just began to weep. You know, just the call of God just gripped our hearts. And that began the process with our eldership of us, uh, being sent out.

I just finished my PhD and we were, you know, Pastor Ole, and we were all planning on me starting a Bible college at Shady Grove. And. And Brother Allen is such a man of faith. He said, man, this is disappointing, Wayne, because we we we stood with you all the way to get your PhD, and now God calls you to go, you know, to Ukraine.

But I said, brother, I’m just trying to follow Lord. And he said, no, no, we’re with you. We’re we’re 100% behind you. So anyway, that began the process of, uh, hearing about the need for leaders in the former Soviet Union, and they needed a Bible college.

01:19:39.700 — 01:20:28.420 · Nic
So this is then. Yeah. That leads us to really one of the major foundational points, right, is the launch of what began as the maybe the Messianic Jewish Bible Institute. So, um, just briefly talk about, uh, how that. I’m sure you didn’t wake up one morning and go, I feel like I’m going to start a messianic Jewish Bible Institute.

But again, I think it weaves back to the relational component. You had Jonathan coming. Your eyes and Bonnie’s eyes and your hearts are open. You see God breathing on the prayers you’ve been praying. And then it was really he and a few other messianic leaders that were trying to figure out this need. How do we train these new, uh, followers of Yeshua?

Right. And that’s where you stepped in. So what was that like? Why did you start in the former Soviet Union, in Ukraine, and then talk us through uprooting your family and leaving?

01:20:28.420 — 01:20:44.810 · Wayne
Yeah. So so we saw that video and the call of God gripped us. We knew we we saw something God was doing and we wanted to attach ourselves to it. I mean, this was what was going on in our heart. And I asked Jonathan, excuse me? I asked Jonathan, I said,

01:20:45.970 — 01:21:30.130 · Wayne
I said, uh, you know, could you use a guy like me? And he said, what are the needs? And he shared several needs. But the one about starting a Bible college was the one that really resonated in our hearts. And so, um, we engaged with Pastor Olen and the, the leaders because they, you know, the the festival had been in a number of cities in the Ukraine, but probably had the in Russia and Belarus and Moldova, Latvia.

But the festival in Odessa was unique. It stood out among the others because, um, in three nights 60,000 people came, 45,000 professed faith in the Lord, and 23,000 were Jewish.

01:21:31.290 — 01:22:14.760 · Wayne
So Odessa had this amazing fruit And it just seemed like the hand of God was on us to go there. So we committed to go there and we never had been there. And of course, our great blessing was that a young couple in our church, Valentina and Tatiana’s fintech, were from Ukraine and Moldova from that area, and they felt called to go back.

They’d finished Christ for the Nations. And um, so we asked them to go join us. And of course, we were there for three years with them, and then they’re still there to this day. Yeah. Uh, leading a very fruitful work. But, uh, but we all launched out in, um, 1996, uh, to Ukraine in August.

01:22:14.800 — 01:22:47.500 · Nic
Yeah. So there was a real key thing that happened the day you were leaving. We’ve talked about it a lot. I’ve reminded the team here of what happened to you that day and what the Lord spoke to you. Because I think it’s it’s a core, guiding scripture for us. I think it should be for every believer who understands God’s heart for the Jewish people.

And you didn’t have a visa, you were needing to leave, and you woke up in the morning and your flight was departing that afternoon, right? And you still didn’t have a visa. So talk us through what happened.

01:22:47.540 — 01:23:21.660 · Wayne
Well, my flight time that morning and Isaiah 37, it says it says the zeal of the Lord of hosts shall perform this. Now, it’s an interesting study. If you look at the times, the zeal of the Lord is mentioned in the Bible. There’s only a few times it says that. But look at what it’s talking about. It talks about the remnant, which Paul says is is the Messianic Jewish community.

We see also it’s related to Jesus, but it’s also but this whole thing, what God’s zeal is behind those things that I think are related to the remnant and to the Jewish people. So

01:23:23.500 — 01:24:12.650 · Wayne
I didn’t even have all that concept, but I just felt like when you’re entering into something that is not about your obedience, it’s not about who you are. You know, God can use a donkey to do this thing. You know, it’s just worked. Attaching ourselves to something that God has already said. His zeal is behind.

And so that just scripture really encouraged me because yes, our visa had not come. This was we couldn’t be checking on the internet or anything like that, or call an embassy. And, you know, somebody picks up the phone and I just had faith. And I said, Bonnie, you know, let’s let’s, you know, let’s go. And, um, so anyway, we headed out to the airport and somebody met us on the way.

You know, it was a whole nother story. The travel agency, they took it to us. And anyway, uh, we we got the visa right as we were entering on the plane, so.

01:24:12.850 — 01:24:13.330 · Nic
Wow.

01:24:13.410 — 01:24:13.970 · Wayne
Yeah.

01:24:13.970 — 01:25:10.160 · Nic
And it’s when we. I don’t know if you remember this or not, but when we launched the Gateway Center for Israel in September of 2019, our launch event at Gateway’s Dallas campus, we the big banner we hung in the auditorium was Isaiah 37. The zeal of the Lord will accomplish it. Right. It’s been yeah, it really has been a banner scripture over our work.

Because to your point, Wayne. This isn’t about you or me or David or anybody on our team. Yeah. Um, it’s not about any of you. Watching it is. God is committed. Yeah. To the Jewish people. Yeah, because he’s committed to his plan on earth. And so therefore, his zeal is behind accomplishing what needs to be accomplished.

So it’s true. When you attach yourself to this, you’re literally attaching yourself to a supercharged move of God. Yeah. And you just have to be willing to let him lead you to wherever he’s going to go. Yeah. So this led y’all to Odessa, but then. So you spent your first year there? I know it was culture shock.

Yes, because it was the former Soviet Union. And you.

01:25:10.200 — 01:25:12.040 · Wayne
You were out in the country the first year.

01:25:12.080 — 01:25:41.820 · Nic
Yeah. You you your first location was a former communist indoctrination youth camp right out on the edge of nowhere. Yeah, it was cold. The power was off and on. Yeah. But then things began to get traction and MGB began to grow. You were living abroad, but you saw open doors. So talk us through. Yeah. What I believe was the first you really saw this as, I think, when you launched it.

If you, if I remember correctly, uh, one location and then as you got there, you realize there’s doors opening.

01:25:41.860 — 01:28:33.580 · Wayne
Yeah. Well, you know, of course, maybe I was a coalition of Jewish. And Shady Grove was sort of the Gentile partner, but different Jewish organizations, Messianic Jewish organizations. And, uh, but Jonathan was at the tip of the spear. I mean, he would where he would the pattern was he would go in with an outreach and we would follow.

And so he was going to he did 1 in 1999, in Budapest, Hungary. And so I went there just to support, you know, uh, Jonathan and I remember being on my knees praying in the hotel room, that old communist dingy hotel room in Budapest. And I just it was like a vision. I just saw a vision of MJ eyes and all over the, you know, all over the world, different places in the world.

And I just knew at that moment we needed to plant one there, and I needed to submit to the board the idea that this could be something that is broader than just Ukraine. And so they affirmed it. And, you know, Jeff and Barb Serio did amazing. You know, just to just to show you, look, I didn’t know much about Jewish things when I was called to do this, but I had a heart for the Jewish people.

And Jeff and Barb, who lead European initiative today and doing a great job with them. But at that time they were they were launched that as well, from Shady Grove to plant maybe Budapest. And I remember Jeff saying to me, hey, Wayne, we’re here, you know, with, with the, the team that’s forming, is it Shabbat shalom or is it shalom Shabbat?

And I said, I said Shabbat shalom. I knew enough about that. But that just shows you. I don’t say that to embarrass Barbara, Jeff, because it just I’m saying that to say we were Gentiles who didn’t know much, but we were willing to go and attach ourselves to something that God’s zeal was behind. So Budapest and then.

Yeah, Moscow. And then, you know, other began to, to spread out to other places in the former Soviet Union and um, and then, um, you know, and I, a Chuck Pierce gave me a prophetic word. He said, there are two countries you’ve been praying about that have large Jewish populations, and God’s going to give them to you.

Well, I knew immediately Brazil and Argentina because I’d been praying for them. I, I began to see where are the opportunities. You know, the Bible says the harvest, you know, is plentiful, but the laborers are few. And if you look at that passage, Jesus is talking about the Jewish harvest. So where is the Jewish harvest?

And so I’ve been praying for Brazil and Argentina, and then we connected through Joe Shalom to dear brothers in Brazil, and then through Jonathan’s Festival and in, um, uh, Buenos Aires to the Gold Steins and uh, and so anyway, that that was, you know, in Latin America and, um, you know, then other things began to happen later, you know, in Africa and so forth, which, you know, you were very closely connected to that.

Yeah. So yeah, began to expand out from there.

01:28:33.620 — 01:31:04.240 · Nic
And I want to just make a point clear to Wayne, as we talk about this history, that where we sit today, um, we’ve evolved a lot. You mentioned just being Gentiles who love the Jewish people. We have a hunger and a love for for our Messiah, Jesus, who has saved us and changed our lives and transformed us and attached us to all of Israel’s covenantal promises as the as the King of Israel.

Right. And and I just hope that listeners today can help, can hear through these lenses of when we’re going to places where there was a harvest or we’re, you know, taking part in outreach. Our stance is that the gospel is an individual invitation to join the corporate family of God. So there was no coercion here.

We’re not going around the world trying to convert Jewish people. We’re basically showing up saying, hey, there is good news. And this is all this is, is if you’re living a life that is plagued with darkness, there is a life of light available to you. You can move from dark to light, from death to life. And I just want to make that clear that it’s always been the heart of maybe you, us, that we’re not out to twist anybody’s arm.

We’re not out to convince anybody. It’s just offering the good news, which is what it is. It’s the good news of Jesus who died for our sins as the Israel’s Messiah to anyone who listen. And there are a lot of Jewish people who made an individual decision to put their faith in Jesus, not because we were tricking them or anything like that.

And I think it’s just it’s it’s important for the people who are watching this today to see how, um, one that was always the heart. And then to we also are constantly growing. We’re constantly learning. We do believe that this is a revelation and a mystery that God is unfolding. And so even as we’ve, you know, came into founding the center for Israel, there was an understanding of deeper revelation and I would say just a evolution of knowledge of, hey, let’s think differently about how we relate to Jewish people.

Maybe some of our language isn’t representing who we want to be or who we are accurately, 100%. And I know that, you know, you had that moment in that hotel room in Budapest, and it was 17 years later, you and I are standing on a balcony of a hotel in Budapest. Uh, not like we were trying to recreate anything.

We were just there on a stop through. Yeah, and the Lord downloads this seed of a vision for a center for Israel. Right? Yeah. And so it really is just being open to the Lord being willing to lean into what he’s doing. So I wanted to just say that and then now wind back into your story. So, um, things open up.

01:31:04.240 — 01:32:17.150 · Wayne
And say though, that on piggyback on what you said. You’re right. You know, I was called to stand up for the Messianic Jewish people, particularly, you know, in a very anti-Semitic church world, a very replacement theology church, where particularly in the former Soviet Union, these Jewish new believers in Jesus, they had no churches to go to.

I mean, no, no church had any context for them. You know, you you know, you you become a believer in Jesus. You’re no longer Jewish. So this was the the backdrop for that. So this became kind of our world working with the with the church and helping them, you know, looking for that pastor who might have a heart to learn, to grow.

But at the same time, we probably weren’t as closely connected to the mainstream Jewish community because this was our focus. And, you know, and I think we realized, hey, we need to not talk about each other. We don’t need to talk to each other. We need to talk with each other. So that was part of our evolvement.

Right. Because when you, you know, be friends, not conditioned on if you believe Jesus or not. Um, you know, we’ve got a lot to learn from you, and maybe you can learn some things from me. And so I think that’s been part of our, our evolving too. Right. True.

01:32:17.190 — 01:33:54.960 · Nic
Yeah. So, um, my side of this story is that in the early 2000, Wayne was invited to a church I was at. It was an Assemblies of God church. I was at a Bible training school at, and I didn’t know anything about anything at that point. And I’ve shared this in maybe some other videos you could dig back into. But I was a new believer, had a huge zeal for the Lord.

You came to the church with pastor Don Pinto, shared about what God was doing with the Jewish people, went through some really basic scriptures that I’d probably read ten times and just highlighted the context of them, and then it was like I was reading Scripture again for the first time, and then I got the really the revelation of, wow, God still loves the Jewish people.

The church hasn’t replaced the Jewish people. Um, in fact, the Lord asked me to repent from an anti-Semitic theological background that I didn’t even know I had. Um, so then I came into understanding. Maybe I became like a $5 a month donor. I think at the time. Yeah. Wayne would send me these handwritten thank you notes for thanking me for my donation.

I thought, man, it costs more for him to mail the letter than it did for me to, you know, give him a donation. And then, um, so I ended up moving here and hearing more and more about maybe attending banquets, hearing what God was doing. But but then things, you know, you mentioned this earlier. Jonathan was like the tip of the spear.

So he was looking for places where how can we reach out? How can we serve? And he ended up in Africa, in Ethiopia. And this is where, you know, your nice stories converge, right? So talk about how did why would a Jewish ministry, a Jewish Bible Institute, end up in Ethiopia? I think for most people, they don’t even know that there’s Jews in Africa.

Yeah, right.

01:33:55.000 — 01:35:14.629 · Wayne
Yeah. There’s a very, very ancient Jewish community in Ethiopia. There’s another very ancient community down in Zimbabwe, uh, uh, South Africa, the Lemba tribe, which have a very high Kohanim gene, you know, because they did not intermarry. And their oral history is that, uh, you know, they they were unfaithful during the Esra period and they went, you know, they were excommunicated from Israel, and they eventually came all the way down to Zimbabwe area.

But they never remarried, but they maintained many of these traditions. So anyway, Jonathan really was called to go and reach these. You know, some might call them lost tribes, though. A lot of Ethiopians have have immigrated back to Israel, right, because they’ve stayed in part of their community through the years.

But through the pressure of, again, a very anti Semitic church in Ethiopia, many of these people were forced to convert to Christianity, but they never renounced all their Jewish identity. So there was this whole restoration going on with a lot of these people that said, we’ve had these traditions for years.

We want to restore it. So Jonathan goes there and uh, and uh, you know, begins to reach out and has all this fruit. So there needs to be a Bible school. So

01:35:15.790 — 01:36:03.930 · Wayne
for me and you, Nick, I really felt I was reading the passage. You know, that, you know, 50 years old, that there’s this, uh, you know, there’s this, uh, the the priest. We’re supposed to not do the heavy lifting anymore and let the younger ones do it and so forth, and, um, and, um, so I, I, I was praying, going back to that principle of praying.

You know, you see something and praying. I knew for the next generation there needed to be someone coming up and a light Elisha or a, you know, a Joshua or whatever you want to call the person. And I began to pray. I share with the board, and I prayed. I mean, I, I just had faith and I just prayed for about four years for that Joshua for that Elisha.

And, uh,

01:36:05.130 — 01:36:23.720 · Wayne
and so anyway, waiting on God and, uh, I’d been at a meeting in Kansas City and, uh, someone had prophesied over me and said, in 40 days the Holy Spirit Spirit’s going to come on you. You know, you’re reading from this passage in the book of acts. So, um,

01:36:24.880 — 01:36:32.240 · Wayne
I thought, well, that’s interesting. So I journaled it. And, uh, anyway, so you and I went to Ethiopia together.

01:36:34.280 — 01:36:55.600 · Wayne
And the night before I looked at my journal, I was just kind of reviewing my journal, and it said, oh, this 40 days from now. And I started calculating. I said, that’s tomorrow. I thought, isn’t that interesting? Well, Lord, are you going to do something tomorrow? So anyway, uh, why don’t you take it from there?

We’re in this courtyard. Yeah. You need to share.

01:36:55.640 — 01:39:27.400 · Nic
I only showed up over there because at that point, I was in the marketplace and I had a career as an entrepreneur. And I had attended maybe banquets and been marked by what I experienced there. I really felt like Tabitha and I both. There was a presence of the Lord there. I think it goes back to Isaiah 37. We felt like God was asking us to connect into something very pure, very holy, very dear to him.

And so we didn’t have much money at that point. We just would make a monthly commitment. And each year we’d come back to the maybe fundraising banquet in Dallas, and we’d up our commitment. We’d pray at the table, up the commitment. And then, I mean, I got, you know, into this business career and the finance sector, and then all of a sudden, more income, more income got bigger.

And I’m like, okay, God, we’re going to double our commitment and we’re going to double our commitment. We’re going to double our commitment. So you very kindly reached out to me, ask me to join the MGB advisory board. And I remember being in a meeting and you were sharing about what was going on in Ethiopia.

And just as a business guy, I was thinking, boy, your dollar could go a long way in Africa, you know? So I was sitting like this, being interviewed by Preston Morrison’s father. And and he was asking me what I was excited about, and I said, Ethiopia. It’s amazing. I felt at a young age called the missions as well.

I felt that was going to be Africa, went to Africa, Actually to Ghana and did not have a good experience and thought, man, this must not be for me. So he said, you should come with. We’re going to Ethiopia. In July of 2011. I said, okay, you invited me, send me your flights. And so I showed up. I’m praying on the way over there about, you know, my wife’s pregnant with our first child, and God’s really just speaking to me.

I mean, so much of what we’re sharing about is that there’s these quiet moments where God whispers to our hearts, and then we pray he. He sometimes gives us Scripture. He often does, and we hold on to those and we pray into them. I think that’s a key part of what we’re we’re we’re really, um, communicating here, Wayne.

Right. And so, yeah, I show up that morning and I’m just taking it all in. I felt like I was on another planet, and. And you’re interviewing this messianic Jewish congregational leader who’s talking about persecution from the Orthodox Christians and the Jewish community. And, I don’t know, just something happened in that courtyard.

And, you know, you both we felt that the people who were there felt it. And I just remember you were interviewing him on camera and you literally just stopped and said, there is a sweet presence of the Lord here. We just need to stop and honor him. And we began to worship. And that just I felt like that just kind of went on and on.

I don’t remember how long it went. Some of us were on our knees, were on our face. You know, there.

01:39:27.400 — 01:39:44.120 · Wayne
Was a there was a, a group, a wonderful group of people from a Baptist church. And they who had never spoken in tongues began to speak in tongues. Yeah, yeah, it was Holy Spirit. It was like an ax to it just started speaking in tongues. Yeah. Never even been taught about it. Right. And just.

01:39:44.200 — 01:40:01.560 · Nic
Yeah, it was so unbelievable, you know, just a very a marker moment for both of us. And, um, so, yeah, you, you had been praying about being, you know, somebody taking on more responsibility from you. And I was just there to try to be supportive of what God was doing. And we don’t have to share the whole story.

01:40:01.560 — 01:41:33.260 · Wayne
But no, I want to share this. So. Okay, so Nick, Nick was interviewed. Nick was so moved. The Holy Spirit came on him as well. And they needed to buy. They needed a building. They were being persecuted on many fronts and they needed a building. And Nick just came out with brother to the pastor. Hey, brother, I’m going to my wife and I will buy you your building.

Just dream big bro, I said. I didn’t say that. He said dream big. Of course he was weeping. And, uh, that was a whole long process in itself. You can tell how Naomi ties into that, but. But basically, Nick bought the first messianic Congregational building and in, uh, in Ethiopia and, uh, but that all came out of that time.

But during that time when all this was going on, it was just like scales went off my eyes and I just felt the Lord said, mm, that’s your Joshua right there. And I thought, wow, we had another guy with us and I shared it with him privately. I didn’t share anything with Nick, and then I share it with the board, and, uh, we can fast forward later.

But, uh, didn’t share it with Nick, but we just prayed, but I really that so much. God did so much. Yeah. Look, God can do so much by the power of the Holy Spirit in a flash that changes your destiny. Yep. Then all the strategic planning that we could go through. Yep. All the all the efforts of man. God can do something like that.

01:41:33.260 — 01:43:44.710 · Nic
The suddenly. Right, as many old preachers used to call them. And then suddenly. Yeah. No, it’s true, because I was in the courtyard and yes, I had been praying about becoming a father. And as I’m standing there in the courtyard and you said, hey, let’s pause and honor the Lord, the Lord begins to remind me of the conversation I had on the plane over with him about becoming a dad, and he showed me a picture of of a wall being built brick by brick.

And how when you become a father, the decisions you make are like bricks being added to a wall that one day will tell the picture of your life to your children. And so it was just a very gentle but holy Little reminder. The Lord is saying, you know, take your life very seriously. This is a new level of responsibility.

So then we’re in that courtyard and he goes, remember, on the way over yesterday, I was talking to you about being a father. I said, yes, and he said, well, when you’re first born grows up and tells people about you, she’s going to mention your love for the Jewish people. It’s going to be one of the first things that she says.

In fact, actually, I was having a conversation with her yesterday, and she’s 14 now, and she is one of the most passionate lovers of Israel. There’s there’s a sweet young man in her, in her grade who’s a little bought into some bad theology. And he loves Jesus, but boy, she will spar with him about how wrong he is.

And she’s watching center for Israel content. So I’m like, this is crazy, Lord. And so but but what happened to was that Tabitha and I had been saving money to buy land. We wanted to move our family on the land and we’d been making some money, so we had a lot saved. And what happened is, when we laid hands on that congregational leader, I felt clear as day.

God said, I want you to buy him a building. And he said, I’m not going to give you a tab of the land until they have land. Wow. So it was to the Jew first. You know, in my own life. Right? And and then he did say, tell him to dream big. And I remember the next day we went and started looking at buildings, and I was like, maybe I should have said the dream big part, because there were some expensive buildings that we started to look at.

And I thought, This is Africa. I didn’t know they were so expensive. So anyway, there was something neat that happened. And I remember being at dinner with you and I could see it in your eyes. I thought, Wayne is not telling me something. I’m pouring my heart out to him like, oh, God’s calling me to love the Jewish people.

We’re going to give this building. And you were just. Yes, I’m pondering these things.

01:43:46.630 — 01:44:10.900 · Nic
And I thought, well, whatever, we’re going to commit it to what? You and I committed to travel together for a couple times a year. Right. And we kept going back to Ethiopia and to tie the loop on that moment when our daughter was born. I won’t say the date on air, but I sent you an email and you literally wrote me back and said, congratulations.

We just got back from signing the paperwork to buy the building. Yeah. So it’s just really like you said, God can do so much.

01:44:10.940 — 01:44:12.940 · Wayne
You purchase, but do we? But I was there.

01:44:13.020 — 01:44:13.460 · Nic
You were there.

01:44:13.540 — 01:44:13.940 · Wayne
Doing it.

01:44:13.940 — 01:45:15.560 · Nic
In Ethiopia. I was here in Texas. But it’s a it really is amazing what God can do when you prepare and you sow seed of faith and prayer into the ground. And then he just snaps his finger one day and says, it’s time. Boom. And so then you and I began traveling together, right? And then ultimately, something opened up for you to come on the team at gateway, because gateway had a Jewish ministry, but there was really some new leadership that was needed.

So this is 2014. And then, um, I sold the company and I’m just kind of getting through some of the, the administrative history here. And, and I was trying to figure out what to do with my life because I felt like I have this calling to the Jewish people. I sold the company. I had some time, but I have a degree in economics.

And and I knew I’m just like this Gentile guy. I didn’t know nothing about anything. So I actually enrolled in the King’s University Messianic Jewish Studies program for a graduate degree. And then Tabitha and I took our first trip to Israel, and we had just built a home on a 100 acre piece of property. Two weeks before we left to go to Israel.

Right. So we’re like, we got the next phase of our life figured out.

01:45:15.600 — 01:45:18.440 · Wayne
It did supply. You made it back to 150%?

01:45:18.480 — 01:46:09.510 · Nic
Yeah, within six months. Yeah. It was crazy. Yeah, yeah. I got an email from our accountants. They’re like, oh, by the way, there was a mistake. And you’re getting a big return. Yeah. Um, so, uh, so we go to Israel. I’d applied for TCU, and then you pulled me aside and said, I’ve just been praying, and I really sense to submit to you.

Maybe you should get a degree in Israel. And I remember looking at you going, my wife is never going to go for that. Right? And then I talked to her about it. She was open to it. So what? That was four months later. We ended up moving there. And so then you came on the team at gateway, but you were still leading.

Maybe I was kind of a 5050 role, right? Yeah. And then, uh, I was I went and got a master’s degree at Hebrew University. So you called me one day and said, hey, when you get done at Hebrew University, would you consider. Well, you tell the story because you had never told me what happened in Ethiopia, Yeah, right.

I we were just walking together. I didn’t know that God showed you something.

01:46:09.670 — 01:46:40.390 · Wayne
Yeah. So I. Yeah, I was asked, could I oversee this at gateway and maybe. And I initially declined it because I just thought, how can you know, how could I do that? How could I leave MGI? And, uh, so I shared it with the board, and the board said, what are you talking about? You know, you’ve been talking to us about Nick for 3 or 4, three, four years, whatever it had been since then.

And, um, yeah. Well, so what year was that career? 2014?

01:46:40.430 — 01:46:40.750 · Nic
Yeah.

01:46:40.790 — 01:46:41.910 · Wayne
It was. And what was the year?

01:46:41.950 — 01:46:43.830 · Nic
It was about three, three, a little over three years.

01:46:43.870 — 01:47:07.740 · Wayne
Years later. Yeah. So they said, you know, Nick’s now at Hebrew. You he doesn’t know what he’s going to be doing when he gets done. Um. Ask Nick. Uh, he’s God’s prepared him. And it was just kind of like, duh. Of course, you know. Um, so anyway, we, I, we did. And I think that gave you some vision. When you finished Hebrew, you we’d start this transition back at MGI and so.

01:47:07.980 — 01:47:08.740 · Nic
Well, it’s so crazy.

01:47:08.740 — 01:47:13.300 · Wayne
Because I shared with you, Nick, I never have shared this with you. And I called you, right? You did? Yeah.

01:47:13.340 — 01:48:47.090 · Nic
And there was a sense. Yeah, right. And what’s funny is, I think I told you this, that we had just moved to Israel. I had sold a larger company, and then I sold out of a smaller consulting company I had with my partner thinking maybe I’ll buy back in. And so I’m. I went to sleep the night before you called me. Yeah.

And I was like, I’m unemployed. I haven’t been unemployed since I was in eighth grade. I’ve had I have worked every year of my life since I was 13. Wow. And I just. It was the weirdest feeling. I mean, I knew that we had a runway for being in Israel, but I was like, this is so weird. I don’t know what I’m going to do.

And then you called me the next day and asked if I would if I would step in to help lead MGI. So then, yeah, we moved back. That process happened fall of 15. Right. And then for you and you and I for a year, we kind of just eased into the transition together where you let me lead, um, operationally. But you are still the president and CEO.

And then we began slowly telling people what God was doing. And then the full handoff was a fall of 2016, right? Yeah. We had it was right after the national election. We had Rick Perry as our banquet speaker. Yeah. And and we we shared with everybody at MGB and we were talking about that was the 20 year anniversary.

Yeah. So that was almost ten years ago. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So. Okay. So then now then you went full time at gateway. I’m full time leading the ministry. You and Bonnie started to lead, but we’re traveling together, and this was what got us to Budapest. Right. So we’re. Yeah. On this. You’re engaging more now with pastors.

So just talk about what you were seeing as we kind of land to where we got today.

01:48:47.130 — 01:49:01.770 · Wayne
Well, you know, my calling was to support Jonathan, the messianic community pioneering into these different nations. You know, following the festival and, um, but but I think it became clear.

01:49:03.190 — 01:50:45.460 · Wayne
that you had a tremendous burden for that, right? And you were very connected in the messianic community. But you also began to have this see, this opportunity. How can we impact the way pastors think about Israel and understand Israel? And, um, and that’s where we saw a new opportunity. I mean, Leonard, this is a scripture, not a scripture, but a quote.

I used to, uh, to give from Leonard Ravenhill. You know, the opportunity of a lifetime, uh, must be seized during the lifetime of the opportunity. Yeah. And that’s what maybe was maybe there was no messianic training outside the United States to speak of back in those days. It was a it was an opportunity that had to be seized during the lifetime of the opportunity.

I think you saw the similar thing. You thought this is an opportunity. Pastors are are in, you know, the valley of decision here. Yeah. And we’ve got to somehow, you know, through the influence of Gateway Church, you know, piggyback on that whatever to try to impact the way pastors think. So you began to have a nuanced, uh, burden calling from the Lord that I think the MGI board began to really affirm and say, yeah, this is right for Nick to step into this.

And why should we, like some nonprofits, do you know, they just try to keep the ministry going, get funds and so forth. We said, hey, I think the board had the humility enough to say, hey, we’ve accomplished our vision. You know, many of these schools are indigenous now. That was the whole goal, you know, there, you know.

So why don’t MGI fold into what we now had the center center for Israel a gateway. So and under your leadership. So that was the segue into that.

01:50:45.500 — 01:53:08.500 · Nic
Yeah, I think what we were realizing was I remember the the vision statement of maybe I was based out of Romans 11 that, um, as if, you know, I’m getting confused in my head right now, but it was this idea of life from the dead where Paul talks about, uh, if if the gospel going to the Gentiles means life for the Gentiles, what will it be to the Jewish people?

But life from the dead. So like realizing he’s he’s trying to communicate all the way back to Israel as a key to the nations. So if we want to see revival, then as, as Israel, the original family of God puts their faith in Jesus, the Messiah of Israel, then there’s something that God unleashes on the earth.

It’s like revival happens. And I remember being on that balcony in Budapest and we were just realizing we’re we’re standing there and it’s like we were looking towards Israel and we’re we’re realizing all of a sudden in the last however many years leading up to that, so many pastors and churches were getting an interest in going to Israel, taking trips like the eyes were opening.

I know that gateway was really championing this to the Jew first message, and so many churches were catching on to it. You were seeing that in your role here at gateway, especially with churches internationally, and we’re realizing people get on planes and they fly to Israel, but they don’t relate at all to Jewish people that are right down the street to them.

So how on earth will we ever get to see what we view the New Testament as prescribing that all Israel will be saved, which is what Paul says if we don’t teach Gentile pastors how to relate to Jewish people, because Paul actually says that salvation has come to the Gentiles to provoke Israel to jealousy. So we feel like there’s a responsibility that if you’re a Gentile and and you’ve been adopted into the family, that it’s like God expects us to relate to the Jewish people in a win some way, in a way that isn’t coercive or condescending or combative, but actually is a way that, hey, I love the God of Israel, and I love Jesus, who has taught me everything about the God of Israel.

So yeah, we began mediating on this, right? And then we ended up at this event in Tokyo, where a church invited us to teach on God’s love for Israel and the Jewish people. And then we came back and remember, we did some strategic planning here and it was like, well, something’s starting to happen here. And you’re right.

I began to see what if we could combine our initiatives? We had the King’s University that had a robust Messianic Jewish studies program under Doctor David.

01:53:08.660 — 01:53:09.980 · Wayne
We started at MGI.

01:53:10.140 — 01:55:23.040 · Nic
That’s right. Yeah, that was a part of the history. Then we had what you were leading at gateway, what I was leading at MGI, and I just began thinking, how do we solve the problems? You know, I I’ve always been a believer in what’s the problem and how can we solve it. So in my opinion, the problem in the narrative of Scripture is that people aren’t in relationship with God.

He created us to be in relationship with him. Genesis three we fall, you know, into sin. And that’s the problem. How do we get people back in relationship with God? So let’s figure out solutions to how to solve the problem. So for us, the problem is the church doesn’t understand Israel. So how can we fix this?

So I started talking to you about I’ve got this idea of a center where like at an academic institution, we can combine resources to provide thinking on because we don’t have all the authority in the world, we have experience. And we could talk about our experience with humility. Right. And so, um, but I think what’s neat wine as it goes back to again, your story, which is as I submitted this to you, I remember in, in 2018, you know, you and I were at a conference together and I realized that it was time to move forward on the plan, that just with what God was doing in my heart, it was either I help identify a new leader for the Messianic Jewish Bible Institute, uh, who I felt should be missing a Jewish, um, or we transition it into this center for Israel idea that I was, you know, nurturing.

And you said, I think it’s time to talk about the center for Israel. And I had refused to write it down. People kept saying, write down, write it down. I was like, no, I don’t want to do that. I feel like I need an invitation from the Lord. And that was the invitation. So I remember we shared it here with the leadership of the team at gateway, and it was like green light, green light all the way.

Yeah. When and then that led us to that September 2019 event at Dallas campus where we had the big banner. Yeah. Right. And but it was your humility to be open handed with the very thing that you and Bonnie paid really through, literally, like blood, sweat and tears to launch. Maybe. And ultimately, it was me asking you both, Tabitha and I, saying, hey, are you willing for us to essentially put this to rest, but extract the heart of it and implant it into a new entity?

And you said, yes. Well.

01:55:23.480 — 01:57:34.970 · Wayne
Thank you, Nick. I mean, you know, both of us are men under authority, right? And, uh, I think faith sometimes comes by submitting things to our authorities. And, you know, we that gives us the faith to proceed on. So when I, you know, talk to, you know, Pastor Olan, to our team here, you know, Jonathan Burness even about the closing of the MGI.

I mean, they saw it. They affirmed it, right? It wasn’t just my decision, but that gave us the extra faith. Hey, God’s really in this thing. And, uh, gave you the faith to that. Hey, let’s. You know, other people are behind us here, so. So, um, you know, I think maybe I began with, where are the harvest fields that we go into?

What nations? Of course, we wanted to go to countries primarily where there were Jewish people and there were opportunities. But we also began to see there was this opportunity in primarily non-Jewish, you know, Korea and other places where Mexico, where there was, you know, significant churches that were wanting to really lean in on this.

And so how we had to nuance our message as well. But I think the same thing today, you know, I think of the harvest fields. I think of what pastors are leaning in. You know, I mean, you got a, you know, you you have a pastor, a leadership that really doesn’t have an interest in Israel. That’s probably not the harvest field.

You know, we want to invest in. But when there’s a. When they’re leaning in and when they have opportunity, you know, that’s where we want to give our give our energy. And I think the same thing with what nations are leaning in. Yeah. You know, so, um, anyway, we’ve seen that with the center for Israel, there are surprisingly, doors that have opened in countries that we thought were very, you know, adverse or, you know, adversarial to to the Jewish people.

But some key churches there. You know, I think like in England, you know, I mean, um, phenomenal churches there that are springing up that really love the Jewish people and want to get involved. And, and so those are that’s where we want to lean in, right, to support them.

01:57:35.010 — 01:59:00.740 · Nic
Yeah. And I know when we when we started the center for Israel again, we, we put Isaiah 37 at the center of it, which was the zeal of the Lord will accomplish this. And I remember telling the team, this isn’t a five year initiative. It’s if the church has gotten into its thinking on Israel over 2000 years, it’s going to take a long time to steer the ship into the healthy direction.

So this is we are going to apply steady pressure from a biblical and humble perspective. Year after year after year. And I think what I learned from you, Wayne, is that the methods changed. The mission doesn’t. So if whether it’s maybe whether it’s center for Israel, whether it’s covenant in conflict, it doesn’t.

I think you and I would say, and I know David would to. Right. That doesn’t matter to us. What matters is staying on the mission of God, doing it with people who are connected similarly to the mission of God and doing it through prayer and faith. Yeah. And I know that as we sit here now, we’re we’re rolling into almost six years of the center for Israel.

But the hope has always been that this is beyond us, that we’re just sowing seed. That’s helping other people to unlock their faith, to take a step. And so even as you’re listening to this podcast, that’s the heart of what we’re trying to do. That was the heart of MGI was to release workers into the field for harvest.

And what we’re hoping to do is the same thing is how can we inspire you to better understand what God’s calling you into with Israel and the Jewish people and be a resource? And I just want.

01:59:00.740 — 01:59:03.340 · Wayne
To get into their harvest field. The harvest field. Gotcha. That’s right.

01:59:03.580 — 01:59:42.980 · Nic
Absolutely. Yeah. Because you and I each Les Paul says we don’t boast beyond the boundaries he gave us. Right, right. And, um, I know that with you and Bonnie now, you know, rolling up almost 30 years since you launched MGB, so you’re even feeling, hey, there’s something even new. Yeah. Ahead of you. Yeah.

And, uh, so just as we land this Wayne, talk about what you see ahead of you. You have spent decades in this space, and we’re seeing a lot of troubling things right now. But just from your vantage point, as you look down the road, uh, what are you hopeful for as as it relates to the church and Israel and the Messianic Jewish movement?

And how do you see you and Bonnie fitting in with that?

01:59:43.020 — 01:59:44.899 · Wayne
Well, I feel

01:59:46.260 — 02:00:22.970 · Wayne
I don’t think God wastes relationships through the years. You know, those continue to be key to us and key, you know. You know, these relationships that we’ve developed at maybe Shady Grove Gateway Church. You know, these are going to be precious. And we’re going to continue to walk in those. So we want to support our friends and we want to walk through the doors God opens.

But, uh, Nick, I, I feel that, um. Yeah. So where do we go from here? I just think we just keep walking through those doors that God’s open, but that there, there’s right now in the Middle East,

02:00:24.010 — 02:01:38.760 · Wayne
it seems to me, uh, this this could be the precursor to the greatest modern day peace time. Uh, you know, you know, could really be good or it could really be bad, you know? I mean, it could be we’re the nations continue to turn against Israel. And, you know, I pray that America doesn’t, but someday they’re going to, you know, it says all Israel, all the nations will turn against Israel.

I pray this is not that season. But regardless, we’re going to continue to hold to the basics. We’re going to continue to love the Jewish people. We’re going to find anti-Semitism. We’re not going to we’re not going to, um, you know, be like the Crusades who force people to convert. We’re going to be friends to the Jewish people.

We’re going to stand with the Messianic Jewish community. We’re going to lean into churches that have this heart and and try to blow the embers of pastors, you know, that that want to know more. And I think that’s what we’ve got to do. And, uh, and Jesus is is coming soon. You know, that’s he said that 2000 years ago.

So I think we’re closer now than we for sure were then. But, uh, I think we got to continue to stick with the basics and, and, and pray that, you know, will be faithful with.

02:01:38.800 — 02:01:40.760 · Nic
That and walk through the doors that God opens.

02:01:40.760 — 02:01:42.920 · Wayne
Walk through the doors that God opens. Yeah.

02:01:42.960 — 02:02:16.940 · Nic
It’s one of the first things I remember from you, Wayne. I remember I remember where I was, I was listening to a podcast or a teaching, and I remember where you taught it, but it was you were talking about the surprises of the Holy Spirit. And I, I think as we end, you know, your life has been marked yours and Bonnie’s as numerous surprises of the Holy Spirit that have zig and zag.

But when you look back on it, there is a line through it, right where it might not seem at the time, like God’s leading you in a straight direction. But as you look backwards, you see all of the ways that he was ordering your steps. Yeah, yeah.

02:02:16.980 — 02:02:53.810 · Wayne
Well, and I, I think he’s been faithful when we’ve not been faithful. Right. You know, I mean, that’s part of the zeal of the Lord. Right. He’s he carries us. He carries us when we stumble, when we fall, we don’t know what in the world we’re doing. But I think if we stick with Israel. I heard Marty Wolman told me.

He said, Wayne, stick with the Jews because we’re going somewhere. That’s right. Marty, I’m sticking with the Jews. And, uh, they are going somewhere and I want to be with the Jewish people. I want to be that, uh, that Ruth, if you will, that doesn’t let doesn’t let them go.

02:02:53.850 — 02:03:59.880 · Nic
Amen. Yeah. Well, Wayne, as we. And now would you just pray, I think, for anybody that’s listening. Uh, hopefully this has helped you understand, uh, a little bit of the just the faith story of how we even sit here today. And it really is a miracle, one miracle after another, how God leads. But I know there’s people watching.

Then there’s people listening who are in a similar space where they’re believing in faith. The picture’s not clear. Yeah, it was maybe you in 1981 or in 1995, or me in 2011, or, you know, or my God spoke to my wife, the name of the center for Israel in 2014, in Israel. And I had no idea. Right when we remember when we were trying to figure out the name of this thing.

We came up with the craziest names, y’all. I mean, they were like, they would make every academic smile. And then I remember coming home and Tabitha had pulled up a journal entry from 2014. And, and it was like she looked me at the face. Babe. Read this. It’s the gateway center for Israel. Wow. So God speaks to all of us, and we all play a part, right?

But would you mind just praying as we end for those listening to just really, you know, give them a boost of faith and to walk forward and what the what the door is God’s opening.

02:04:00.040 — 02:04:51.870 · Wayne
Amen. Lord, I pray that those listening, Lord, that you move upon their hearts. And, uh, Lord, we just pray that the wind of the Holy Spirit would direct them now and guide them. Lord, give people faith to hold on to promises and Scripture. If they don’t have any promises, Lord, then let them set themselves apart.

Let them fast for a day, or get a loan and and put down their phones and just ask you for a word from heaven. And as they’re reading the Word of God, Lord, speak to them about their circumstance or through a prophetic word or however. Lord, just give people words that they would take hold of. But Lord, I pray specifically for for people to take hold of words, to know how to stand with the Jewish people and not not distance themselves or not make it a a

02:04:53.470 — 02:04:53.909 · Wayne
the a

02:04:55.470 — 02:05:15.950 · Wayne
not a first priority, but a second, third, fourth priority. Let let them pray, Lord, for how to make this a priority in their lives and their ministries. And so, Lord, I just pray that you would use this podcast, Lord, to encourage people and Lord to plant new seeds and water. Old seeds. In Jesus name, Yeshua’s name, Amen.

02:05:15.990 — 02:06:11.170 · Nic
Amen, Amen. Thank you, Doctor Wayne Wilks. Thank you. On to the next adventure. Thank you and thank you to each one of you that watched. I know many of you, maybe you were a part of the maybe or the center for Israel journey. There’s so many people that we didn’t have time to mention. But I want to honor all of you, uh, who we.

You know, um, Pastor Daniel always says that great churches aren’t built on the talents of many, but on the sacrifices and the investment of, of or not on the talents of a few, but on the investment of sacrifices of the many. And I think, Wainwright, that we aren’t the heroes of the story here. There were so many faithful people and maybe history donors and staff members, and the same at the center for Israel who aren’t on the camera with us, but are as key of contributors to the successes that we’ve experienced as anything else.

And and the Lord will be that way. We’ll show you that way for you as well. So God bless you. We’re going to see you next time. Tune in for the next video, forthcoming soon. Thanks.