How did Jesus Fulfill Passover? A Messianic Perspective, with Greg Stone and David Blease

*This transcript was generated by AI, and may contain transcription errors. Please refer to the video, or contact us with any questions or discrepancies.*

The order in Matthew is he drinks the third cup and then he says, I’m not going to drink again until I drink at a new with you my father’s kingdom. He reserves the fourth cup until his second coming, and Paul says in one Corinthians, whoever eats the spread and drinks this cup proclaims the Lord death till he comes. When he comes. We’re going to finish Passover with him. This is going to happen.
Welcome back to another episode of the Covenant and Conflict podcast with us. We have not a guest, not a friend, but someone who’s in the family, the Center for Israel family, the Gateway family, pastor Greg Stone. This is not going to be his last time on the podcast. You’re going to see him very regularly and we’re just so thankful to have you with us today. Thanks.
I’m very thankful to be here.
Thank you. So Pastor Greg has been at Gateway now for 10 years,
Just under 10 years.
10 years next month. And he has stewarded and led our Jewish ministry for the past 10 years at Gateway Church. Gateway Church is a little unique, but we have a Shabbat service the first Friday of every month where Greg is primarily speaking at. And then there’s a Jesus’ Jewish roots class that happens once a week. Greg is one of the most amazing teachers at Gateway Church and talk about understanding the Jewish foundation of your faith. This guy will show you that foundation, and so we wanted him to come on and talk about some of these topics, especially the feasts. So we’re excited to dive in today.
I love the topic.
Before we dive into Passover, which is kind of going to be the bulk of our conversation, I’d love for people to know, just you see a Messianic Jewish pastor, all of a sudden now we’re like, wait, where does this fit? I’m sure many people are asking that question. So did you grow up Jewish? Were you secular? Were you religious? And where did then Yeshua fit into this?
Yeah, I grew up Jewish. Everybody in my family is Jewish. There’s nobody in my lineage that is not a hundred percent Jewish. ancestry.com says I’m a hundred percent. So that pretty much says it right there. That’s all we need. There’s nothing else on the register. I was bar mitzvah when I was, just before I turned 13, my rabbi, rabbi Arthur Hertzberg was the president of the American Jewish Congress. So I pretty much grew up in the dead. It’s like
Paul Hebrew of Hebrews. That
Was me. And what happened was I went off to college and I started doing things that I shouldn’t have been doing before I went to college. I took private lessons with a rabbi considering being a rabbi. But then I went off to college and my life just really just fell apart with drugs. And after a few years of that, my dad said, why don’t you join the Air Force? It’ll make a man out of you. And while I was in the Air Force, I was invited to church and I had an experience with the Lord and I came to faith and that’s what happened. So I wanted to go into the ministry right away. I just knew I was supposed to be preaching, but the Lord just kept telling me, not now, not
Now.
And then one day he gave me the choice to either do it now or to wait. And I thought, well, why would I put it off? So if he’s given me the choice now, I’ve wanted to do this for 10 years, literally at the time. And so immediately I got out of the Air Force and I went to seminary.
So question, when you said you found your faith or found faith, however you put it, was there an initial understanding of I’m still Jewish, or was the church where you grew up kind of in that understanding of like, well, you’re Christian now, so leave the Jewish stuff behind. How did you navigate being Jewish? But
There has never been a day in my life when I would not have said I’m Jewish. In fact, in the Air Force you had to mark off what your religion was. And always, every time that would come up, I’d be like, what do I write? Because do I check off Jewish? Do I
Write Messianic? Before Jewish, they didn’t have
The word messianic. You have to check the box. It’s a government form. So I had no choice. So I would put Christian and I am a little unusual, I guess because I feel like I own the word Christian. I have never not said I’m Jewish. I am Jewish, I’m Christian. I consider myself Protestant. I consider myself Pentecostal. I consider myself charismatic. That’s me. All the
Labels bring ’em on. I have no problem with
Any of these labels. Yeah,
Because for you, Christian does not mean not Jewish.
Not
At all. Some people have that connotation that Christian, this third box, you have Jew, Gentile, and Christian.
I own it. I own it with joy. I’m a little unusual. I’m not bothered by a lot of Messianic. Jews don’t like the word Christ. I love the word Christ. Okay, so I’m a little odd, right? Sometimes people will call me rabbi, but I am happy and own the word pastor. I see myself as a pastor.
Yeah. There’s an understanding given that church history, why certain messianic Jews would have an issue with Christ. Totally
Get it.
The word Christ or the word Christian because it can by the historical standard, not make room for Jew and Gentiles. So I understand that people would opt for another term.
I totally get it.
But yeah, you’re saying, Hey, if Christian means a follow of Jesus, check
Totally
Pentecostal believe the Holy Spirit check.
Right, exactly. But I have no condemnation, no judgment, no negative on those who don’t want to own those words. I really don’t. For me, when I came to faith in the Lord, okay, I loved my grandfather. My grandfather was and probably still is the most significant male in my family, loved the man.
When
I came to faith in the Lord, he literally put his hands around my neck to choke me. Oh my goodness. I mean, how could you do this? What happened to our family in the Holocaust? So I loved my grandfather. Several years later I had my fourth son and we named them after him. Fourth kid. Third son. So I own my Jewishness, I own my Christian ness. I don’t see it as an option of I have to do one or I have to do the
Other.
No, I’m not that at all.
Well, thanks for sharing the brief overview of your story. I’m sure we could spend a whole podcast on that. So I want to shift now because we’re going to talk about Passover. Great. Jesus and Passover, Yeshua and Passover. And I think Passover, and we’ve talked about this before, is kind of the easiest on-ramp from what we would know as typical Gentile Christianity in the Evangelical church where we’re doing Easter, Christmas, and sometimes it’s hard to see anything Jewish because we’ve lost connection with the Jewish Foundation, but we’re all familiar with Jesus died on Passover and
Not the day before, not the day after.
And so when you start to peek behind the curtain of this Jewish, maybe it’s a veil, the Jewish world, and start to see the Jewish foundation of your faith, I think Passover is a big one. It’s an easy, so will you talk a little bit about what is that kind of understanding of Jesus and Passover? When I say Jesus and Passover, Yeshu and Passover, what’s the first thing that comes to mind?
He died on Passover. He rose on the feast of first fruits. He is the fulfillment of Passover. Kate, I really love Passover.
Tell us about
It. I don’t know if I have an earlier memory. I probably do have an earlier memory with some family, but one of my earliest memories, I remember sitting on the floor at a Passover at my grandmother’s house,
And that’s part of it, right? You need to be relaxed during Passover or that. Am I making that
Up? But no, I was literally, they were off the table. I’m just on the floor. I’m like a kid. I’m a kid, I’m a little kid. I’m a toddler and I’m on the floor just playing and it’s Passover. So for me, Passover is okay, this is maybe a little heady, but Passover is the feast of revival. I mean, there’s, people think about Moses’s Passover as the first Passover, but there’s an interesting note in the Jewish study Bible, which is not Messianic. And it points out that all of the major themes that happen in Moses’s Passover actually happened to Abraham, the going down to Egypt, the death of the firstborn or the threatened death of the firstborn, the saving of the women, just one thing after the plagues, all of the things. So really Moses’s Passover is actually not the first Passover.
It’s like an echoing of
Abraham. And so what that really means is, and this is so cool, Passover, Moses’s Passover is the feast of revival because it’s a revival. It’s a coming alive again of Abraham’s descendants. I could run through all the Passovers in the Old Testament like two minutes. The next Passover in the scriptures is in numbers nine. It’s the one year anniversary. And on the one year anniversary, some people could not celebrate Passover because they ran a dead body and God made a way for them to do it. So revival to come alive again, God made it so that not even death would get in the way of that Passover. And the next Passover mentioned to the scripture is Joshua. In Joshua chapter four, they came up out of the Jordan River on the 10th day of the first month, which is the day that the lamb was to be selected, which means the thing that brought them out of Egypt is the thing that brings them into the Promised Land.
Wow.
The first thing Israel does when she comes into the promised land is celebrate Passover.
Wow.
The next Passover mentions the scripture is Hezekiah’s revival, and it actually says it’s the greatest spiritual event since Solomon. And nobody had ever done anything like what Hezekiah did since Solomon, not even like nobody. And so as a feast of revival, the next Passover Josiah, and there it says nobody had done it like him since Samuel, that’s 390 years. The next Passover mention of the scripture is Ezra chapter six. They come across the Euphrates River and they finish the temple and time to celebrate Passover revival. All of these are the greatest revivals of the scripture.
The
Next Passover mentioned in scripture is Ezekiel 45 when the Lord returns to the earth. And then the next Passover mes in scripture. This is why, going to your question now, the next Passover man scripture is in the New Testament and it’s Jesus’ family. And then Jesus dies on Passover.
When you say Jesus’ family, do you mean
He would go to Jerusalem every year?
So
He kept Passover every year, and then Jesus dies on Passover rises from the dead during the feast of unloved and bread,
Which
Means Passover was the feast of revival coming alive again for Jesus. And he does this so that we can be born again, so that we can be revived.
So the whole resurrection theme is
It is there are no revivals in the Bible greater than the ones that I just went through. It is the feast of revival.
Wow.
So we are born again because of what he did. And then the Azua Street revival, most people don’t know this, but the Azua Street revival, there was a reporter, Frank Bartleman, who wrote about it in a book on how Pentecost came to Azua Street, Frank. And he says he saw people speaking in tongues on April 15th, 1906. But then he, and that happened to be Easter, but he writes in his book that he learned later that people actually started talking in tongues on April 9th, but he doesn’t know in his book is that April 9th? It was a Monday night, it was an evening prayer meeting. And as the sun was setting on April 9th, Passover was beginning the Azua Street revival that is now responsible for one quarter of all Christians on the planet who are spirit-filled. They all take their spiritual life back to a revival that began on Passover. So it actually is not only the revival of me and you, but it’s actually the revival of the church is Passover. Wow.
That’s all we have folks. Man, that’s so good.
Isn’t it? Awesome.
Yeah. So when you say Passover, does that include the feast of unleavened bread and the feast of first fruits? Are those looked at as kind of one?
That’s a great question.
Or is this separate?
So when you look in Exodus, it looks like, looks like Passover is one day and then the seven days of the feast of unleavened bread. But by the time you get to Ezra, the whole thing is called the feast of unleavened bread. And when you get to the gospels, the world that Jesus lived in, Yeshua lived in his life. And Mark 1412 was one of a few verses where it’ll actually say it. The disciples ask Jesus, where do you want us to go and prepare the supper for you? And he says, because it actually says it was the first day of the feast of unleavened bread the day the lamb is killed. Well, the lamb is actually not killed during the seven days of unleavened bread. It’s killed during the first day. So by the time the gospels are written in Judaism, there is no difference between the one day and the seven days. And if you look on any Jewish calendar on the planet today, it will not distinguish the feast of Passover from the feast of unleavened bread. They are all the same.
But the feast of first fruits is
It’ll always fall during the feast of unleavened bread. It falls on the, depends on how you calculate it. There’s two ways to calculate it, which we could talk about it
If you want, like solar versus lunar, is that what you’re talking about?
It has to do with whether, okay, so this is actually in the Talmud also. So the way Exodus actually says it is you start with Passover. Passover could fall on any day of the week. It could fall, it’s the 14th day of the month. So it could fall on a Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, any day of the week. So what Exodus says to do is to go to the first Sabbath following Passover, and the day after that is the feast of first
Fruits.
But what’s the Sabbath? That’s the question. And so the Sadducees said that the Sabbath has to be a Saturday, and the Pharisees said, no, it doesn’t have to be a Saturday. It actually is the actual day after that first day, the Feast of Passover. And the reason they said that is because on that first of the days of unleavened bread, the first day after Passover on that day, the scripture says you’re not to do any regular work, but it says you can prepare food. So the Pharisees say, well, you can’t do any regular work, therefore it’s a Sabbath. But the sad is you say, but you can prepare food. So it’s not a Sabbath. So there’s this debate, and it’s kind of interesting because what has happened now is, and I’ve lived on this border between Judaism and the church, what has happened is the church is following the guidance of the Sadducees and Judaism is following the guidance of the Pharisees, which is kind of interesting because the church is following the Sadducees that don’t believe insurrection, resurrection, and the Pharisees are following, what are we doing? Come
On.
But I actually think the Sadducees in the church got it right.
Really.
I do actually. And that’s why it’ll always fall. The feast of first fruits will if the church is right, and I think they are, it’ll always fall on a Sunday.
And is the feast of first fruits celebrated in the mainstream Jewish community as much has Passover? Because I don’t hear a lot about
It. No, not nearly as much. And it’s really not even covered very much in Torah.
I
Mean, it’s kind of like it’s there.
It’s almost agriculturally. It’s like this is the first of the harvest.
It’s the barley harvest.
So if we’re not as agrarian today, maybe that’s part of the reason why
It is. But it is interesting because Paul alludes to the feast of first fruits twice in one Corinthians 1520 and one Corinthians 1523, Paul says that Christ has risen from the dead, the first fruits from the dead. So he’s actually twice saying that Jesus Yeshua actually rose from the dead on the actual day of the feast of first fruits. Again, he’s crucified on the actual day of Passover, not the day before after. And he rises from the dead on the actual day of the feast of first fruits, not the day before and not the day after.
So good.
And Paul calls attention to it,
Man, when I grow up, I want to be able to rattle scripture off the same way you do. I’m like somewhere in the New Testament it says, but man, we’re throwing out exact references, which I respect.
I hope it’s not too much.
No, it’s great. I just love this stuff, stuff I want more. So now I want to shift to talk about how Jesus fulfills Passover, the general fulfilling of the death and the resurrection. But then there’s these smaller detailed fulfillments. And if you went to an Orthodox Passover Seder, most Christians would probably be blown away at how intricate it is. And you have the four cups of wine you have. You’re putting salt water on things, you’re eating bitter herbs, you’re dipping horse radish, you’ve got the afikomen, you’re hiding crackers. You’re like, what’s going on? This is not what I pictured when we do communion, what we kind of take from Passovers communion. So first question is maybe you can walk through what those different elements are and how certain are we that Jesus did some slash all of those and how many may be developed over the Jewish history post second temple Judaism?
I guess just to start with the question, there is a book written published by S on the history of the Hagada,
And
It actually explains for those who might want to read it.
Yeah, that’s
Great. If you have a Lagu Bible software, you can get it through them as well. But it actually walks through how it developed. We really can be pretty certain of a lot for what he did. There’s going to be some things we can’t, but there’s some things we could be pretty confident of. So there are three main Sybil associated with Passover. One of ’em is one that’s not thought of a
Lot,
Is the bitter herbs. So bitter herbs. I just think this is remarkable. In Matthew 27, the scripture says that they tried to give Jesus wine mixed with gall, and he turned it down. Well, gall is a painkiller. But then a little bit later in the gospel, the scripture says that they gave him vinegar and he drank it. Vinegar is about as bitter as anything you’re going to find. So why does he turn down the wine that’s mixed with the the painkiller, but he takes the vinegar. And here’s what spiritually what I get out of this when I say my sin is not that bad. I did that, but it really wasn’t that bad. And that’s like putting a painkiller on it. And Jesus refused it. And I think it’s as if the Lord is saying, if it’s really not that bad, you can handle it on judgment day. But instead I say, what I did was horrible. It was vinegar. Jesus says, I’ll take that. That’s all he wants from us. Is this honest kind of what I did was horrible. He’ll take it. That’s so good. So that’s one of the symbols, another symbol.
And just to pause on Herb,
Please, all you want
Bitter herbs before Jesus’ time and leading up to Jesus’ time, that was the remembrance of the bitterness of slavery, correct?
Yeah. Yeah.
So it’s like remembering slavery in Egypt. We’re going to eat this and we’re going to be brought back to how bitter slavery was. Is that right?
Yeah. And one of the things that also I think is just a really cool part of Passover is during the Seder we dipped some matza, which is the second main symbol, the unleavened bread. We dipped some matza in the bitter herbs. By the way, Ashkenazi Jews, which is the large majority of the Jews, use horse radish.
So
That’s pretty hot. And I always like to, if you come to a Seder with me, I’m going to have the hottest horse radish I can find on that table. I mean, it will be there. And I’ll have the mild stuff for those who are not quite ready for it. Not there yet. Haven’t been yet. Well, I’ll have both there because I want to taste the hottest. There is. I want to be reminded of this at Paso, but one of the things we dipped the masa in the horse radish, and then there’s this mixture that’s called ette. Hara set is apples and nuts and cinnamon and honey and wine or grape juice. And it’s this mixture and it’s made to look like the mortar that built the bricks. And so Hillel Rabbi Hillels had to mix the two on mat. This is called a Hillel sandwich. And so you mix the hot horse radish with this, and the car is set, it’s made of apples and cinnamon and honey. I mean this is like apple pie without the bread. It’s
Like sweet stuff.
It’s totally delicious. So it’ll be the tastiest thing on your table. It’s apple pie, it’s what it’s, and so you mix the two and you eat it. And for me, the spiritual emphasis here is the sweetest memories that we typically have often will come out of the hardest things. When you think about the hardest thing you’ve been through that is going to, when you’re done with it, when you’re through it, when the resurrection has come, it is just the sweet. And we love talking about those, how God brought us through that stuff.
Yeah, totally.
So that’s the horse radish, the bitter herbs second symbol that the scripture requires. Rabbi Galio said there’s three things that are required. He said it actually said, if the father does not talk about these three things, he has failed to fulfill his duty as a father at the Passover. So one of ’em is the bitter herbs because it actually says in Exodus 12 verse eight that you must eat the Passover with unleavened bread and bitter herbs.
It’s commanded. Yeah, it’s
Commanded. Right. So the second thing then is the matza, the unleavened bread. Well, I love this. In fact, the Lord really drove this home to me, the 21 day fast that we did at the beginning of the year. Isn’t it interesting that the Bible does not call it the fast from leaven? It calls it the feast of unleavened bread.
Yeah.
Interesting. Now you eat unleavened bread any day of the year. So it’s not really the eating of the unleavened bread that really sets the day apart. What really we are commanded to eat unleavened bread. But what really sets the day apart is the fact that we’re commanded to not eat. So it’s like God is saying, what I want you to do when you fast is I want you to put your mind and your heart on the things you can do and to celebrate that and don’t get lost focusing on what you can’t do. God said the tree of life was in the midst of the garden, but Eve said the tree of the knowledge of good and evil was in the midst of the garden,
But
It wasn’t. It’s just that she put everything around the one thing she couldn’t do. And so this feast of unleavened bread, this idea of I’m going to feast on what an enjoy
What I can,
What I
Can or what God’s given me too.
And so Levin is, it’s obvious it’s a symbol of sin. And it’s interesting because Levin is mentioned five times in the New Testament and where we’re commanded to avoid it. The scripture talks about the 11 of the
Pharisees.
And in Matthew 16 two and Matthew 2023, the Lord refers to the 11 of the Pharisees as hypocrisy. He didn’t disagree with the Pharisees theology. He disagreed with their
Hypocrisy.
The hypocrisy, whatever they tell you to do, do it. Just don’t do what they do. That’s what he says. So the 11 of the Pharisees is
Hypocrisy
In another place, the gospel say to avoid the loven of the Sadducees, but he did disagree with the loven of the Sadducees. Their doctrine was horrible.
And
Then the gospels refer to the loven of Herod who was worldly. He murdered his own family. And then the New Testament talks about the love in one Corinthians, the loven of immorality, it says a little 11 leavens, the whole lump. And then in Galatians it talks about the loven of legalism. So this is actually things to think about as we’re participating in unleavened bread
Is the analogy there, because I’ve wondered this yeast is such a small thing, it’s like sand. And yet as Paul says, but then the whole dough becomes full of lemon, is the analogy that it expands, that it blows out of proportion. I kind of think of the trope like sin always takes you further than you want to go, keeps you longer. Is that the picture?
I think there is something, one of the things that you’re saying about 11 is Passover, and one Corinthians 15, seven, it actually says, Christ is our Passover lamb. He’s the unleavened bread. So this idea of how leave makes bread bigger than it is just a quick diversion as it were on Pentecost. God says, I’ll pour out my spirit upon all flesh. And Pentecost is one of the two times in the TaNaK in the Old Testament where God commands Israel to make bread with leaven, right? So God is willing to put his spirit on people on flesh, and Pentecost reminds us of that. But Passover reminds us that Jesus is the unleavened and leaven is rottenness. That’s really what it is. So when all of the animal offerings had to be offered with unleavened bread, they all had that and the grain to prepare to do the grain offering with it couldn’t have any sugar added to it. So the exception to that would be the leavened bread that’s used for Passover and then also the leavened bread that’s used for any Thanksgiving offering, which is one of the three kinds of peace offerings. So you could add God commanded that there’d be leave in your Thanksgiving offerings. And where that is significant and of interest is when you add leave to the bread, it makes it big. And so I think it’s as though God is saying when you offer thanks, make it big,
That’s good. You can’t have any leaven added to your vow offerings, which are peace offerings. You can’t have any leaven added to your free will offerings, which are peace offerings, but you’re commanded to add leaven to your Thanksgiving offerings, which are one of the three peace offerings.
Wow.
So make your thanks big,
Blow it out of proportion.
If you’re going to be thankful, show it. That’s so good. And the other thing is the other two peace offerings, you have to eat it. Well, the vow offering, you have to eat it that day or the next day and the free will offering, you have to eat it that day. And the Thanksgiving offering, you have to eat it that day. So in other words, the bread offering that is offered with leaven,
Not
Only does God want us to make it big, but he wants us to do it the first day. You can’t eat it the second day. So not only should we give thanks big, but we should do it right away and daily. Don’t put
It off, not live on yesterday’s thanksgiving. Right.
Put it off. Don’t put it off. Be thankful Today, sos unleavened breads is the second symbol of Passover. And obviously that’s Jesus. So the bitter herbs Jesus and the leaven is Jesus. And then the other part of the Passover is of course the actual lamb. And so the lamb is of course, that’s Jesus. Behold the lamb of God, it takes away the sin of the world.
Was gal saying it was bitter herbs, matza and lamb, or was he saying wine?
No, he said, and lamb.
Okay, so wine’s not in that top three list.
Correct? Isn’t that what I know Come to my house. I know because the entire Passover Seder is built around the four cups, so it just built in.
He like, I don’t even mention that one,
But they really matter. Totally. They’re serious. They matter. But Galio said, and why does he say that? Because is 12 verse eight says, you shall eat the Passover lamb with unleavened bread and bitter herbs. So those are the three
I cut you off. So I was just confused when you went lamb, not wine. I was like, wine’s got to be the top thing. Okay, so lamb.
Well, the lamb is Jesus. He is the sacrifice, right?
Yeah.
He’s the lamb of God who takes away the sin. So it’s just literally his person.
And historically as they’re celebrating Passover, pre and during the time of Jesus, they’re thinking of the lamb that was slain in Egypt, the angel of death passing over them. So they would’ve had this understanding that this lamb is in remembrance of the blood. Right?
And the blood really does matter a lot. I don’t want to diminish the blood, but that’s what Gamal said. So for me, one of the blow away mind things of Passover is the lamb.
Just
To give a picture of how big of an issue this is, Josephus has a line in his book on antiquities,
And
He describes how many people came to Jerusalem for Passover. And so it’s 2.7 million. And he describes, he says, based upon the idea that there will be 10 people eating for each lamb and the number of people, and he comes out the actual, he says 256,000, I think 500 lambs were sacrificed by fathers. Now, can you imagine you’ve been to the Temple Mount, how are you going to sacrifice
That many lambs?
256,000 plus lambs in one day?
Yeah.
How does that happen? Yeah, right. This is a big deal. Yeah. It’s a manufacturing problem right here. I mean, how do you get that many on the temple Mount? In the ancient world, in the ancient world, let alone. But Josephus is a history writer. That’s all he is, is history, right? Yeah. Just chrono it. So what happened? You tell me. I don’t know. I don’t know what to say. I read that butchers in the world. It’s fascinating. Yeah, it’s totally fascinating. So it’s the big kahuna.
Did they have to be slayed on the same day? Could they be because you had the
Election? I wondered that. I found no evidence. I am unaware of any evidence that it was because the fathers had to bring it. I don’t know. But even if they spread it out over a week, how are you going to do
It? Still a big number. So about Jesus being the lamb, what’s the connection with Jesus coming down to Jerusalem from the Mount of Olives then coming up and people laying palm branches saying, Hosanna, is there a connection there with him being the lamb the day the lambs were selected?
Well, he came in on that would’ve been on Palm Sunday, right? I don’t know that I have an adequate, adequate answer to what you’re saying, but clearly he did. He came in on that day.
My understanding was that the lambs were selected on the day he was coming into Jerusalem, which would 10
Days. Well, they were selected
On the
10th day of the month of Nissan. So Passover is the 14th day, so we don’t know what day, but Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday. But there’s a traditional view that Jesus was crucified on Friday. I slightly lean towards that because no matter what day you pick, you’re going to have problems Wednesday, Thursday, and Friday are the three options. No matter what, you’re going to have problems. And I have no problem throwing away a church tradition if you give me Bible to support it. I really don’t.
I think that’s a good place to be.
Okay. But this is a strong church tradition of Friday, and there really is no really strong case that I’d like to say it like this. There’s smarter people than me that will argue for Wednesday, Thursday, or Friday. And so you’ve got these three views. And so when you have that going on and there’s no agreement, then I’m going to end up sticking. Well, church tradition says, and the other thing that makes me kind of stick with Friday, and this will matter because if you are trying to figure out what day of the week the 10th was, because otherwise, we’ll let fall on the Sunday, one of the reasons that I tend to go towards Friday just me is what day of the week did God create humanity? And Genesis
The sixth day,
Which is Friday because the seventh day is the Sabbath. Well, if God created and to use Corinthian language from First Corinthians, if God created the first Adam on Sunday, on Friday, why would I not expect that he then would send the second Adam, the one who fixes the whole mess on Friday on the same day. So I tend to lean towards Friday, but I’m not religious. I’m not married
To that. I’ve heard all the arguments and I think, like you said, every argument has some good points and then there’s some issues
And there’s smarter people than me that do believe
That’s smarter than me. I know about smarter than you. But back to the fulfillment. So we have the lamb, and then lastly, we have the cups. I think most Gentile Christians would be shocked to see how many cups there are and why they’re not little communion cups. So can you explain this tradition of the four cups and where that is in scripture and how that would’ve been
Laid out? Absolutely. Okay. So yeah, they’re not little communion cups and in fact,
Which maybe they’d be excited about.
Yeah, this probably explains why they fell asleep in the garden. They just had three cups, four huge cups. Well probably didn’t have the fourth because he actually says, I will not drink of this cup again for the fruit of wine again until I drink it. I knew with you in my father’s kingdom, Matthew 26 30. So he actually says there’s going to be a cup. So he drinks the third cup, which is the cup of redemption. We all know that that’s
Will you go through the cups real quick?
Okay. Cup one is the cup of sanctification. This is the cup that’s used to just, and so these all come out of Exodus chapter six verses six and seven, and he says, I will take you and this four part promise, and each of these four promises turn into these four cups. So the first cup is the cup for I’m going to, you’re mine.
Okay,
I am going to take you, so the cup of sanctification, so pass over the seder begins with this cup where you sanctify the meal. And so that would’ve happened before anything else happens in the gospels. And that cup is not referred to in the gospels. Then Luke mentions two cups in Luke 22, and we know the second cup that Luke mentions is the same as the cup. The only cup that Matthew mentions. Matthew mentions one cup, but it can’t be the cup of sanctification because that cup’s already been drunk before they start. So Matthew has to be referring to either the second, third, or fourth cup. But Luke mentions two cups. And so that’s got to be either the second and third or the third and fourth, right? Okay. But in Matthew, the order of events goes like this. It says, he says he uses the cup, the cup of redemption to establish communion. And then he says, I will not drink at this cup again until I drink at annuity my father’s kingdom. And then very important it says, and when they sung a hymn and then they went out. So this is one of my, if you ever come to a Seder with me, you’re going to hear me do this. This is like I do this religiously. Okay. What happened at that Passover Seder is there are Psalms 1, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, and 18. These six psalms are called the Egyptian halal. Psalms one 13 and one 14 are sung before you eat dinner. And Psalm one 15 through one 18 are sung after you eat dinner. They’re sung between the third cup and the fourth
Cup.
So the order in Matthew is he drinks the third cup, and then he says, I’m not going to drink again until I drink at a new with you my father’s kingdom. He reserves the fourth cup until his second coming, and Paul says in one Corinthians, whoever eats this bread and drinks this cup proclaims the Lord death till he comes. When he comes, we’re going to finish Passover with him. This is going to happen. So he says, so he drinks the third cup and then they sung of hymn, what hymn did they sing? Well, the Egyptian halal,
They
Sang Psalms one 15 through one 18. This is amazing. So then they left. He didn’t drink the fourth cup. So the last thing that he drank on the earth was the third cup, the cup of redemption. But then this for me is the thing that I totally love this. This means we know the last song that Jesus actually sang on the earth.
Wow,
That’s a cool thought.
Yeah, that is cool.
The actual last song that he sang has to be Psalm one 18. And in that psalm there’s some amazing lines like, bless this hee who comes in the name of the Lord. It’s from that psalm, or this is the stone. The builders rejected the cornerstone that’s in that psalm, or this is the day the Lord has made.
I’ll rejoice and be
Glad, man, and I will rejoice. So the reason why that line is so amazing, and there’s another line in there, what can man do to me? He sings this and goes to the cross. But this line about this is the day the Lord has made Revelation 13, eight and Revelation 17, eight, both say, Jesus Christ crucified from the foundations of the earth, which means that in God’s plan, because God, he made everything, but he also made time. So there’s this ball of creation, and in this ball of creation, there’s everything he made. But in that ball is also time. So God lives in the ball, but he also lives outside the ball. So there’s nothing that can happen in this ball that he cannot see. There’s nothing in the future. So in other words, when it says Jesus Christ crucified from the foundations of the earth, that means that in God’s reality, not just foreshadowing, not just telling the future, not just prophesying and predicting, but in his actual reality, before he says, let there be light.
He’s already got this plan.
Well, not a plan, it’s done. Because in his reality, Jesus was already crucified. So that means that what happened was all of creation is built on the cross, which means this is the day he’s crucified on Passover. This is the day that the Lord has made all of creation past future eternity. Everything in God’s mind, it’s
Built in this moment
Is built on the day of Passover. Wow. It is the day that all of creation’s built on, which is why for me, this is the big kahuna of everything. But it’s not the biggest feast that would be. That’s a whole nother,
We’ll get there.
We’ll get there, pastor Greg.
Well, man, this has been so rich and you’ve riddled off so many scriptures and I’m so thankful.
I’m sorry. I just hope I didn’t overdo
It. No, it’s amazing. Don’t apologize for it. I can’t believe it all lives rent free in your head. So as we close up our study, I say our study, I feel like I’ve been studying except I couldn’t take notes. Is there any last thoughts before we kind of get to the practical?
No, I would just say, okay, there are seven mosaic feasts, the Modi, right, the feast. And they’re all celebrated with food except for the one yum ki port, which is a fast. So that’s also food because it’s a fast, right?
Yeah.
So food is a big part of it. Food
Related. Yeah, food related food’s always a part of it, whether you’re eating it, whether you’re not
Eating right, then you break the fast, which goes to something you said about how communion was established at a meal. So I do believe mean sometimes I will do communion at home alone. I’ve done it and the little cup of the little wafer. I’ve done that countless times and I’m sure I
Will.
But the actual Passover that created communion was a full meal. And really to do communion the way the scripture pictures it, because Paul, he describes the people of Corinth as one eating while another goes hungry that can’t fit the little cup of the little wafer. I think we need to continue doing the little cup of the way people get blessed with God by God for
That.
But that evolved, the actual way that it was done for centuries was a full meal.
So question, we’ve developed communion based on this tradition that happened at a Passover Seder. Jesus says, do this in remembrance of me. So in the early church in Acts, we see them eating and having communion with one another. And then Paul later talks about, if you’re going to take communion, eat first, don’t go and just scarf down the food unless you drink wrath upon yourself. So how did that develop from, was that a unique Jesus following community ritual, that it was essentially like this Passover Seder anytime you meet, is that how they would’ve viewed it? Like this communion is remembering what happened on the Passover, but we’re not doing it at Passover?
Well, I think it became evident that in the scriptures that on the first day of the week they met, I think it was, it Acts 20 verse seven, maybe
Because they would’ve been in the synagogue, maybe primarily on,
Well, but it would be in the homes.
But I’m saying then the next day they would’ve had
The
Christian gathering.
Yeah, because Christians, followers of Yeshua, followers of Jesus, and this is like I own the word Christian, followers of him did in their homes. So this idea of having a meal at the home, and it doesn’t say that this is beautiful,
It
Doesn’t say they prayed before they ate. It says while they were eating in the middle of the meal, Jesus took imagine that if in our families all means pray at the beginning of the meal, but imagine if in the middle of the meal, Hey, now that we’re all here, let’s just give God thanks, and you pick up a piece of bread and eat it. And then in the middle of the meal, pick up the cup. And maybe this is good. I know we’re going to run out of time here,
But
One of the things that I really love about all of this, all of the feasts, but especially at Passover, we talk about the cups, the blessing that’s set over the cups. Blessed are your Lord, our God, king of the universe who creates the fruit of the vine. You’re not blessing the drink.
Yeah, you’re blessing God.
You’re blessing the God who gave the drink or blessed that are your Lord, our God, king of the universe who brings forth bread from the earth. You’re not blessing the bread.
So
Jews don’t bless the food
And Christians can’t imagine that you would bless God. He blesses you. Why would you bless
Him? We do not bless the food. I can’t tell you how many decades. I don’t know if it’s been decades since I’ve blessed food.
Lord blessed this hamburger,
I’ve blessed the God who gave me the food. I’m going to enjoy it. Yeah, totally.
So as we move practical, and we can kind of do a tag along on this at the end, I think during this time as Passover is coming, Christians want to get involved. Gentile Christians want to get involved. And we talked with David Rudolph who’s on the podcast. And again, we talked through this desire to go to the foundation of our faith, the Jewish Foundation, but yet we don’t want to just take everything Jewish and just do it ourselves without understanding this distinction. But at the same time, if you feel called to personally to do a Passover Seder, that’s something that will be enriching. It’ll be fruitful. We would love to encourage you to do it alongside the Jewish community if there’s a messianic city, God,
Absolutely.
So how do you pastor people through this? If I’m a gentile Christian at Shabbat service and I’m like, I just listened to your podcast on Passover. I’m ready to do it today, what would you tell me to do?
I was led to the Lord or brought invited to church where I met the Lord by a lay leader in the church who would come out and talk to me while in the military. And he would say, what’d you do for Passover? Like, what’d you do for the Sabbath? He would ask me these questions and I found his questions honoring. So when he invited me to church, I felt like I had to go. So the first thing I would say is I would include Jewish people in your Passover. I would do it if you want to do it. If you want to do it, do it. Do you need to do it? No, you don’t need to do it.
Yeah. It doesn’t make me a better Christian if I do Passover. It
Doesn’t. It really doesn’t. And Acts 15 lists four things that Gentiles are called to do and none of ’em is Passover. That’s a good point. So the way I like to say it is Jewish people are commanded to keep Passover. Gentiles are invited.
Yeah, that’s great.
So totally. It’s a different perspective. So Gentiles are welcome to do it. I would say if you have the opportunity to include Jewish people in it, you should
Or be a part of a Messianic synagogue that’s putting it on for their
Congregation
Or something like that.
And if you have Jewish people who can even provide some kind of leadership in it, that would be better.
But
Sometimes that doesn’t exist. And if that’s the case, well then do it. If you want to do it, yeah,
Totally
Nots
So good.
But I can’t tell you that you’re going to be a better Christian because you do it if you’re not Jewish. I like to look at it like this identity demands function. I’m a man. I’m going to have to give account for what kind of man I was and not what kind of woman I was on judgment day. That’s my identity. Identity demands function. I’m a father. I’m going to give account for what kind of father I was.
Yeah, so good.
Because identity demands function. I’m a Jew. If I have a Jewish identity, I have a function. So then the question becomes, what is my function in the body of Messiah as a Jew? And if the functions of the Jew, or say the functions of the man are done by, they’re losing their identity. So to honor that identity. So it’s good to include Jewish people in the Passover, right?
If you’re a Gentile trying
To celebrate if you’re a Gentile, but not, there’s four things that Gentiles are called to do according to Acts 15 versus 28 and 29, and none of ’em is Passover. And it actually says these four things are necessary and those four things. And then it says, if you do these, you do well. So if you do these four things, you do well. But if I tell you, you would do better if you kept Passover. I’ve actually just told you, you’re not doing it so well. So you don’t need to keep Passover.
No, this is so good.
But you’re welcome to. And if you want to do it by all means and include Jewish people, and I think that’s great to do it. I do think that the Passover, if you as a Gentile steward this opportunity, well, you will make Jewish people jealous about your faith. What’s he doing with the Passover? That’s mine. To which you can then say, well then come show us.
We would love a Jewish leader for that.
Would you come do this? Right. We don’t know what we’re doing here, but if you feel led to do it, and you don’t need to necessarily feel allowed to do it, but if you do, don’t let it get in the way that there’s no Jewish person available. Do it.
Everything’s done better in relationship, everything. We’re encouraging the relationship and the distinction and the unity, but at the end of the day, there’s going to be fruit in it. It’s, there’s always more fruit when it’s done in partnership
And relationships. I’ve heard some good psychology teaching on joy only occurs in
Relationship.
That’s a really good lesson right there.
Yeah. There’s a psychological book on how the brain functions in community, and it talks about people don’t actually change their behaviors in isolation. They’ll only change in community. So it’s something about the community
Aspect of changes. Joy is in relationships,
Not just knowledge.
Right.
So it’s so good. Well, we’re way out of time, but it was so good. I don’t care. This is amazing. So we’re definitely going to have you back and maybe touch on Pentecost, which you gave us a little teaser for. We’ll try to put as much in the show notes. You’ve done so many great teachings on Passover and Seder, so maybe we can put those for people to listen to. But until next time, this has been Covenant Conflict Podcast with Pastor Greg Stone. We will see you next time.