Torah-Observant Jewish Man Finds Yeshua Through The Chosen

Rocket (00:00):

I remember that at that point, I was ironically at my lowest point in my journey, and it’s funny that it was there that I remember telling God, I can’t do this anymore. I feel like that I’ve tried everything that doesn’t work. I’m trying to invite you into my space. I think you’re there. I really want you to be there. I don’t want you to be a figment in my imagination, but I’m exhausted and I feel so broken, and I feel like I gave him, this was my D-Day, it was my declaration day that I felt really like my soul was going to die that day. I didn’t know what it meant, but I told him, I said, I can’t do it anymore. And I almost pictured myself it would. Now, I would describe as not only at the narrow gate, but I was at the space between where the narrow gate’s attached to the wall. And I remember saying specifically, I’m going to take a deep breath and either I’m going to die and fall forward into the kingdom, into your kingdom, or I’m going to die here trying, but I’m done. And I literally said that.

David (01:33):

Hey everybody, welcome back to another episode of the Covenant and Conflict podcast. We have a very special guest, one that’s been cooking in the background for months, and we finally got him on the podcast, my friend, rocket Rudolph. Thanks for being here.

Rocket (01:47):

Oh, thanks for having me. David.

David (01:48):

We’ve been talking about this for a while.

Rocket (01:50):

It’s been a few months.

David (01:51):

Rocket is a good friend now, recently moved to the area, so now is officially a Texan. Has spent time in Brazil, in Israel, in London. He is a Torah observant, Jewish follower of Yeshua. Ain’t that a great, beautiful mouthful. And he is an amazing story that I wanted to just allow him to come and share with all of us. You’re going to be blessed by it. So without further ado, rocket, how are you?

Rocket (02:20):

I’m doing great. Thanks for having me.

David (02:22):

It’s so good to have you. There’s so many places we could start with your story. You have an amazing story. As we talked about this podcast, I really wanted to allow our listeners to hear how you grew up. Like you said, you’re a Torah observant. Have you always been Torah observant Jewish? Technically you could ask, have you always been Jewish? Could

Rocket (02:44):

Technically.

David (02:46):

And you’re a follower of Yeshua. Have you always been a follower of Yeshua? So can you walk us through maybe that statement? So you’re a Torah observant, Jewish follower of Yeshua. So take us back. Who is Rocket Rudolph

Rocket (02:59):

Regarding to that statement? Yes. Well, I have not always been any of those things apart from Jewish.

David (03:05):

So you’ve always been Jewish?

Rocket (03:06):

Yeah. That’s good. I was born that way. I was born with the affliction.

David (03:10):

Born a Jew, die, a Jew. That’s a book in my office right now.

Rocket (03:12):

Exactly. No, I wasn’t always tour observant. That came later in life. I had had spats with God and even with Yeshua in my family. My father was a Jesus movement arriver to Jesus in the early seventies. And my father and mother divorced when I was quite young. My father remarried and started his new life with my stepmom, who I absolutely love and adore with Jesus. And so I didn’t really have much exposure to Jesus over the years to Yeshua because I didn’t live with my father full time. I would kind of ping pong back and forth between parents, especially in my teen years. If I got tired of or I didn’t get my way or didn’t do what I wanted to do in one place. Yeah, you

David (04:20):

Could switch. I would

Rocket (04:21):

Switch. We would do the

David (04:23):

Handoff. And was your mother Jewish?

Rocket (04:25):

Yeah,

David (04:26):

But not the Yeshua following.

Rocket (04:29):

No.

David (04:29):

Okay. No,

Rocket (04:30):

No.

David (04:30):

Was she like tour observant?

Rocket (04:33):

No, no, not at all. In fact, her family were Christian kind of, but not really. And that’s a longer historical thing that happened to many Jewish families over time. But she was a member of Hadassah. My brother was in the JCC softball league. And being from a religious in Orlando where I was growing up meant following the rabbi to the all you could eat Chinese buffet after the Saturday service.

David (05:01):

That’s as Jewish as get

Rocket (05:03):

That was really from, that was very strictly religious because it happened every week. But no, I had a relationship with God. I grew up quite lonely. I was a latchkey kid in the early seventies and spent a lot of time by myself. But I was always aware that God was real. Nobody ever really told me about God. I didn’t hear much about God, but I always knew he was real. And I remember, I wouldn’t say he was my imaginary friend, but kind of

David (05:35):

How it felt.

Rocket (05:36):

Yeah, I had a connection to him. And I remember in terms of knowing about my Jewish identity, was coming home from the school and the news was on, I was probably in kindergarten, I don’t remember when, but it was Yom Kippur War. And I remember seeing Israeli planes on the TV and they were talking about the war, and I just had this swell of feeling, these are my people and this is our war. As a five or 6-year-old, I had that very acute sense of an awakening to my identity that purely came from the inside out. And so I had that going on and then lived with both parents, had times, like I said, it had spats where I would try to, when I was living with my father and stepmom, I would go to church with them. Still an interesting word for me to say. And I’m still getting used to the vocabulary,

David (06:48):

By the way. Yeah, no, I get it.

Rocket (06:51):

And I tried to make a commitment and looking back, I think really it was more to really identify with my father and to feel part of the family. I was always something lacking for me. So I didn’t, even though I was a part of some of the stories that from my family, I didn’t ever really feel I had my own direct connection. I always felt it was a little off center for me. I never really felt fully comfortable. So then fast forward, got married to a Jewish girl, made Jewish babies

David (07:25):

As one does,

Rocket (07:26):

As one does. And sometime around sometime between the third and fourth child, I became wanting to reconnect or to connect for the first time in a very intimate way with my Judaism. And met Habad met somebody from Lubovitch who are the evangelicals of the Jewish world.

David (07:53):

Yeah, that’s a good way of putting it.

Rocket (07:55):

I think they are. I think they are. And lovely people. Some of the people that I met in the movement really loved God. They were righteous men and women and they said a really good model. But I saw a side of Judaism that I’ve only really seen on TV or in books and never really knew up close, which was what was this awareness? This awareness and

David (08:21):

Awareness of God,

Rocket (08:22):

Awareness of God and real and his presence and a way that impacted their life directly and deeply.

David (08:29):

Because a lot of Christians can view Lovich or habad or even just religious Judaism as rote religion, void of God. Yeah,

Rocket (08:40):

Absolutely false.

David (08:41):

Yeah. That’s how Christians can paint it.

Rocket (08:42):

Completely false. Yeah, that’s how Juice painted too. But they have a very clear mission. I think it is fair to call them the evangelicals and the Jewish missionaries,

David (08:54):

But they’re going out after Jewish people to embrace their Judaism, to embrace their Jewish identity. So it’s a little bit different than I think how Christians would view evangelism

Rocket (09:06):

With

David (09:06):

The converting mentality, where the habad organizations, they want people to embrace their, they want Jewish people to embrace their Judaism.

Rocket (09:14):

And it’s interesting, this whole conversion thing is something really fascinating to me because what I learned was the reason that Jews don’t seek converts isn’t because we think we have some secret code that you don’t have access to. It’s because the idea is that God made us all unique. And if you imagine the world or the people of the world like a puzzle, and each nation or each tribe represents a piece of the puzzle, God’s framed us, designed us to come together to form the complete picture. And so our picture, our shape is uniquely Jewish, just as yours is. A gentile is uniquely gentile and so much more varied than ours with so many different facets and roles. And so the real mission of Habad was to help Jewish people reconnect with what it means to be a Jew and what their identity is in the world. And so there was no need to preach Judaism to non-Jews because they have their own path to God. And I think that’s something that’s misunderstood. It’s not definitely coming from a place of superiority or we have it and you don’t deserve it. It’s just that it’s a different calling.

(10:26):

And I knew many niks and rabbis that encouraged their Gentile associates and friends to go after their faith in Christianity or to go after their connection with God.

David (10:42):

Totally.

Rocket (10:43):

But I saw living a Jewish life in a very practical way. Was

David (10:49):

This in London?

Rocket (10:50):

It was in London actually, originally, yes, it was in London originally. And the thing that struck me most was the way that one friend in particular summed up the Jewish life, the Jewish experience. And I think it’s still the most amazing thing. The call of the Jew is to make the ordinary extraordinary, to elevate the mundane to its optimized purpose, to its highest purpose. And that’s the mark on the Jewish life it should be. And that’s the call that the Jewish people have is that we are here to elevate and lift up all life into its full potential

Speaker 3 (11:33):

For

Rocket (11:33):

The glory of God. And so when you’re with people that way, it’s very catchy. Who doesn’t want to,

David (11:40):

It’s very life giving,

Rocket (11:41):

Who doesn’t want to give their life to something like that. So they warmly embraced me and took me in and even tried to convince me I should go off to Yeshiva and Jerusalem. I would make it. I was working in media in London at the time. I was running a big creative shop, not big but influential. And this is late 1990s, early two

Speaker 3 (12:01):

Thousands.

Rocket (12:02):

And I just absorbed, I absorbed myself into Jewish life. So I went from basically having very little religious education and knowledge into being fully immersed into the Jewish community. Wonder,

David (12:17):

Would you have viewed yourself as a secular Jew at the time that maybe had some messianic roots family? And when you fully dove into habad, and I dunno if you would say orthodoxy or So, when you dive into orthodoxy, what did your father think of that? You have kind of these it’s actually

Rocket (12:42):

His fault. What happened was, what happened was fault’s a heavy word, sorry, dad. But no, but what happened was, it was one of the times I was living with my father and family and we were in Greece and he did a trip to London. He was gone to London and he brought me back as a gift for my birthday, a kippah, a full-sized sit, gado, large prayer Shaw, and a art scroll sitter, which you have behind me here. And I was like, this is so cool. Oh my gosh, now I’m a certified proper ju boy. I have all the accruments for it, and I didn’t know what I was doing, but I remember that living with them, of course there was church, there were things to go to, and I almost felt naughty, guilty. I remember secretly absorbing the UR and getting up early and praying and how crazy. Now we’re backtracking the opposite direction. But I was 16, 17 years old, and I found myself just immersing in that almost as this side life. So I would go to church with them or be in the congregation with other people, and then I would race home and put on all my Jew garb. And

David (14:07):

Those two things weren’t compatible for you?

Rocket (14:10):

Not really.

David (14:11):

The Christian and the I didn’t, I mean, I don’t think most people, it is compatible.

Rocket (14:17):

And even again, with terms Christian and Jewish, something i’s still things wrestling through these terms. But

David (14:25):

So you embrace this orthodoxy, and is that something that is an open declaration? Is it rebellious? Is it silent and it happening in the background? Is it something that you’re excited about publicly or more privately? What’s that like for you

Rocket (14:42):

Now?

David (14:42):

No, then

Rocket (14:43):

Oh, then it was definitely a secret. That’s what I felt. It felt a little naughty. I was doing something, I don’t know, I felt like most of it I kept to myself in my room. I would close my door and I didn’t really have a lot, but I would always close and be really quiet or I’d wake up really early to explore it and had no instruction. But

David (15:09):

When you started speaking with Lovich, I’m assuming it became more and more orthodoxy, and that was probably very noticeable to

Rocket (15:17):

People. I mean, I did kind of shift overnight. I remember within a few months I was pretty much into the full North London Orthodox scene, which changed a lot of things. I mean, I kept a lot of my friends. I still had my media business in Central London, but the way I related to people changed,

Speaker 3 (15:41):

Especially

Rocket (15:42):

Relating to women. I worked with a modeling agency, a very hot modeling agency at the time. And so there’s women coming in and out of the office. And I mean, I was always a good boy with that particular, I never had a problem with that. Thank god it wasn’t one of my vices. But going from having playful conversations or even being a little casual to being more conscientious and not even shaking hands or touching,

Speaker 3 (16:09):

Because

Rocket (16:10):

That’s something that in the orthodox community that men, and I mean husband and wives touch all the time. I don’t know if you’re familiar with the background of why they don’t touch in public. No, I don’t.

David (16:22):

I know it’s a common thing that we have to tell people if we’re going into those communities is, Hey, don’t be offended if you reach out for a handshake if

Rocket (16:29):

You woman. Well, it has to do with, which is the family purity laws. And when a woman is on her cycle, there is no sexual relations. And so often they don’t touch at all during that period of time because they think it’s Anita, where it’s unclean, a period of being unclean. And until she goes to the mikvah to purify herself, they have a couple of weeks, they basically say on and off. So you’re on or you’re off. So you’re two weeks on, two weeks off. And during that time you’re encouraged to share talk, to become closer emotionally to really connect. But there’s no touching. The reason you don’t touch in public is that if you did, you, I would know when your wife’s on or off. So to protect her honor, they just don’t touch in public. That’s separate from touching other women, but it’s related to those family purity laws.

Speaker 3 (17:25):

Interesting.

Rocket (17:26):

And so I remember knowing, because I was close when I was staying with them, I stayed in their homes. I became really part of their fabric. Even things like if he had to hand, if the rabbi had to hand his wife something, he would put it down and she would pick it up. He wouldn’t hand it to her just to not let anybody into your family privacy. And there’s something beautiful about that. I found something beautiful about it. But I remember it was strange because being in the media and being in the creative world, especially in the late nineties and early two thousands, I mean, I remember going to parties in London that just were quite wild and out of control to not even touching or shaking hands. And the actually had taught some things you could say because you don’t want to offend anybody. So I used to say to women, because really reach out and sometimes you can’t avoid it. But I remember saying to them, either my mother taught me never to touch what doesn’t belong to me. Something I would say

Speaker 3 (18:27):

That’s a good line,

Rocket (18:27):

Or I could never shake hands with such a lovely lady. And so sometimes they would just be blown away by being flattered and I’d get out of it. But it was a big shift and it was a big change, and it was hard on the family. And I had kids, we enrolled them in Jewish schools, they went to religious Jewish schools, and it was a big shift in the family, but I really felt it was right at the time and gave myself to it. And I stayed that way. My wife and I divorced. I moved to New York full time and remained and that orthodox life, I would say until moving to central Florida, back to central Florida where I was raised originally. So about I would say 15 years.

David (19:13):

Wow. And what was the change, going back to central Florida? Is that where you reuniting with family?

Rocket (19:22):

Yeah, my mother had passed, and so I felt it was better to be closer. She had a number of businesses and things that needed to be resolved. And so I thought I could be more of assistance being closer. So that kind of pay to my life in the city.

David (19:43):

And

Rocket (19:43):

Went back.

David (19:44):

When you went back to Florida, you spent 15 years essentially with a strict observance to Torah, and I’m assuming also the Mishna Talmud, some of the other ordinances. So looking back at those 15 years, both in the middle of it, and now in hindsight, we’ve talked a little bit certain things that gave you so much life, certain things that were just way too hard to do in modern life or in a modern city, and then certain aspects of it that maybe were not life-giving or draining. So when you look back at that, what do you look at? 15 years of

Rocket (20:31):

Orthodoxy? Yeah, I mean I kept a lot of it treasured, I felt like, but it was so hard moving back to a place where there were very few observant people at the time.

David (20:42):

Without the community right

Rocket (20:43):

Here, without the community, and it’s all about community.

David (20:46):

I

Rocket (20:46):

Mean, it’s living these things like it is now. We walk these things out together as a community. And so it was hard being in a place where there weren’t a lot of observant people. And when I use the term observant, I’m really referring to

Speaker 3 (20:57):

Orthodoxy.

Rocket (20:59):

It became quite unmanageable. I did try, I remained kosher, not style. I had a fully kosher kitchen and maintained that throughout my time living in Florida. But I would eat out in restaurants, I would eat vegetarian, then I stopped wearing my kipa and then things slowly. And I also got into another relationship at the time. So things kind of drifted slowly romantically, aded, slowly got married again, had a son. And although my wife at the time who also had a Jewish background fully embraced my Judaism and was excited to learn about her own story, her family story, and we celebrated Shabbat and things, it became more of a cultural mark as opposed to a more deeply meaningful spiritual mark. And then I just kind of slowly drifted away from going to synagogue and more outward looking.

David (22:03):

There wasn’t this intentional decision of like, I’m done with this a slow,

Rocket (22:08):

There wasn’t

David (22:08):

A slow fade from, again, without being a part of the community. I’m sure that’s an easy thing to do for any of us to when we drift away from our support system or community.

Rocket (22:18):

Yeah, I think we’re designed to be in community and to have common unity. It’s a compound word. And I didn’t have a lot in common with those I was running with. And certainly it wasn’t a time of unity. I was married, working, had a successful advisory practice at the time and doing quite well, but unhappy. And so I feel like instead of running into God, I kind of walked away into the shadows, which I think a lot of people do. I don’t understand it now. It’s like I don’t know how I survived, but never out of his reach or gaze

Speaker 3 (23:03):

And

Rocket (23:03):

Never, I always felt even at the time kind of nested into the shadow of his wings, but just not facing him, not looking at him face to face. And so that I hit a bad patch in my marriage during that time. And so to the point where I almost try to convince myself that there isn’t really a God, and I find it funny now, looking back, well, even now today, I’m not sure I believe that with Jewish people, I don’t really believe there’s anything. I don’t believe that there’s a Jewish atheist, even though a Jew to be atheist gave us communism and socialism. Nah, I don’t buy it. I don’t buy it because there’s something in our fabric, in our DNA that connects to God and his word, whether we accept it or not or walk in it. That’s just my take and belief. That’s your

David (24:10):

Hot Jewish

Rocket (24:11):

Take. That’s my hot Jew take my hot baked Jew take. I just feel like there’s a connection deep in our fabric. And as much as we try to escape it and refabricated it, it’s just really more about what we’re mad at God, the God we think we don’t believe in instead of the God we do believe in. But he’s always still there in the sentence in the frame. And so I had that. And then this is a good direct segue into what happened next. I was working in my practice. I had an office in London at the time still and in Dublin, Ireland, and I was heading up the Americas for the business. And we had a big opportunity to do a global audit for one of the world’s largest mining companies and to go to all of their headquarters around the world and to find out from their key leaders what was working and what wasn’t working.

(25:12):

And the headquarters of the business was in London. But because I was living in Florida, I took South America, which was Brazil, Chile, and Peru, and had to think in English. I was going to get into Portuguese then. And so I went down there and was coming at the end of my marriage and was in kind of a kind of floaty space with God. And when I landed in Brazil, I felt very impacted by being in the country. And I had no idea I’d traveled all over the world, had nearly a million real air miles over 30 years and never felt well, felt that way. When I went to Israel for the first time, I had a similar feeling. And when I went to Turkey for this first time, I had a similar feeling, but when I landed in Brazil, something woke up and got switched on inside of me, and I became deeply emotional. I remember arriving to Beci, which was the city I was working for this project, and I became undone emotionally. And I didn’t know why. It was something about that moment, that place, the geography, the timing. But I really began to cry, went back to my hotel room, poured a drink and cried

Speaker 3 (26:39):

And

Rocket (26:41):

Didn’t know why it was. And it ended up being that country where I met the Lord and had a direct encounter with the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob for the first time.

David (27:00):

What was that like? This is when you poured a drink, you were feeling emotional.

Rocket (27:03):

It was after. No, it was after that. But I started to feel this connection to my Jewish roots and my kind of Jewishness

(27:14):

In that emotional time, and I really didn’t understand it and met a G while I was there who was part of the project that we were working on. We stayed in touch after the project finished and kept writing to each other and became romantically connected and involved. And I decided to relocate to Brazil and to live, and I wanted to marry this woman, and I felt like it was, it’s the most peace I’ve ever had in terms of being in a relationship and felt comfort in it. And so I moved to Brazil during the pandemic right at the beginning of 2020. And we were married, and it was during that time period that I started to open myself up again to God, and it came through a lot of pain and frustration, and I had started a new business and was feeling very promising. I had a lot of promise about this new business and this business has to work because amazing and brilliant and why wouldn’t it be? And it’s awesome

(28:21):

And didn’t give up any of my current clients. I needed to make bread, I needed to continue to provide for my family. But something happened, and within a few weeks of starting this new business, all my clients just vaporized. All my consulting clients, all my creative coaching and clients, everything just vaporized. It all went away. And I still don’t know today how it happens. There was no reason, there’s no catalyst that nothing timing. And I can’t say that it was the pandemic because actually in some ways I was busier than I’d been the previous decade. I was making good money, I was doing well during the pandemic, something happened and it all within three months vaporized.

(29:07):

And I had not been in that position and I’m like, it’s okay. I’ll just use my credit cards because I’ll be fine, because I always get work and I’ll be fine. Well, I didn’t get new work, nothing came in. And that also around that time, my health started to deteriorate. I was having marital issues with my new family, my new wife, and I was so sad and I was so broke and I felt so broken. And I remember thinking, I have to have a better attitude. It’s all about my attitude. So I’ll start to just have sessions every day. And I was really scraping the bottom of the barrel. I mean,

David (29:47):

To find something to be grateful

Rocket (29:48):

For for 20 minutes. I think I am grateful for my breath. I’m grateful I have relative health. I’m grateful I have a roof over my head. I have amazing kids and amazing grandkids, and I have a roof over my head.

David (30:06):

Did I mention breath?

Rocket (30:08):

And my kids are amazing. And that really, I was really struggling and I just felt like that’s all I could do. But I had to start somewhere. And it’s so interesting looking back how God will use anything that we give him to use, and he just graciously met me in that point and allowed me just to work through it. And that lasted for a few months. And then instead of God being this big, at that point, I remember having a conversation with my wife. I’m not sure I believe in a personal God. I became quite a universalist at the time.

David (30:39):

Yeah, a deist almost.

Rocket (30:41):

Yeah. So I started just kind of, I’ll start off with gratitude, and then over a few months what happened was this universal, big abstract character kind of contracted closer around me. I felt his presence

(31:00):

More real like I did years before and in a way that I didn’t even feel back then. I felt it in a very personal way. And so I moved from just thank you universe to thank you God, and started to thank God and started to pray. I remember the first day I picked up a UR again after a few years of not looking at any religious or spiritual material at all and started to pray and wasn’t talking to anybody about it. I was still really at a pretty bad place. I mean, it was really a dark, the darkest time, certainly of my life. And I spoke to my older sister and she said, you know what you should do? You should watch the chosen. And I said, yeah, nah,

(31:49):

I don’t think that’s, nah. She goes, it’s really well done. And she’s telling me about, she goes, apart from the Spanish accents of the actor of Jesus, it’s really a good show. You should watch it. Don’t let his bad accent throw you off. That’s what she said. So she encouraged me to watch the show and I thought, I just can’t do it. I don’t want the last thing I want. I’ve been in the film and media business, I don’t want to see some cheesy production, especially about Yassky, the un affectionate term that religious Jews referred to Yeshua. But she pushed and pushed and finally I said, okay, I’ll watch it. And I didn’t want to be a liar. I spent years lying to myself and anybody else about all sorts of things, and I thought, I’ll watch it. And I was very impressed. I mean, I started watching. I was impressed. The very first scene is mim as a child with her father and just the kind of authenticity of the show and how at the end of that episode where she’s in the bar hammered and Yeshua walks in and follows her out, and I’ve called you by name.

(33:05):

That lit me up inside. Something really changed and I became deeply impacted by the show and then stopped. I couldn’t stop watching

Speaker 3 (33:15):

It.

Rocket (33:17):

And I watched probably, I don’t know, three, four episodes that day and then a few weeks went by and I got busy with other things and decided I’m going to go back to it and pick it up. And I remember that at that point, I was ironically at my lowest point in my journey, and it’s funny that it was there that I remember telling God, I can’t do this anymore. I feel like I’ve tried everything. It doesn’t work. I’m trying to invite you into my space. I think you’re there. I really want you to be there. I don’t want you to be a figment in my imagination, but I’m exhausted and I feel so broken. And I feel like I gave him, this was my D-Day, it was my declaration day that I felt really like my soul was going to die that day. I didn’t know what it meant, but I told him, I said, I can’t do it anymore. I almost pictured myself. Now, I would describe as not only at the narrow gate, but I was at the space between where the gates attached to the wall.

(34:35):

And I remember saying specifically, I’m going to take a deep breath and either I’m going to die and fall forward into the kingdom, into your kingdom, or I’m going to die here trying, but I’m done. And I literally said that as dramatic and as somehow painfully romantic as it sounds, that’s really what I said. And I remember closing my eyes and then felt compelled, I dunno why to open them and put on the next episode, I forgot where I was in the series at this time. This is season one. And Nicodemus for those, if you know the show, he had his encounter with the issue on the rooftop.

David (35:19):

Yeah, it’s the John three conversation, right?

Rocket (35:22):

It was amazing. And I was completely undone and I thought, I’m going. And I felt I’m going to take that breath now. And I literally took a deep breath and saw myself scratches, wounds and all deep pain falling forward and saying, okay, you’re going to have to lift me up. And at that time, Nicodemus had said, I’m standing face to face with the living God more or less. And I just became completely undone and I felt like I, I was aware of taking the first conscious breath of my life. I felt that’s when I had an encounter with the living God for the first time ever. And that he really put air into my lungs

David (36:23):

To take that conversation from Nicodemus to be born again, to be born from above,

Rocket (36:28):

Literally through a TV show. And I watched that episode three times and I could not believe that he was responding to an ancient thousands of year old ancient call of my people that they would know their God and be known by him. And that was my born again moment. And I didn’t know what to do with it. I mean, it was like everything else in my life. It happened pretty quick and all of a sudden in a way, but it was building and building and building to that time. And so I was stuck with, well, what do I do now? So I ended up calling my sister and telling her, and of course I knew it. I knew it. And then I called my father and mom and spoke to them and they were very encouraging and they’d been praying for me for years and for decades. And I just felt like that was the beginning. That was the beginning of the beginning. And that I really had a new life and I didn’t know what it meant, but I knew I’d never be the same and I was going to be on the beginning of the path of the rest of my life, and now I’m in Fort Worth.

David (37:49):

Wow. It’s an amazing story. Thank you for sharing it with us. Now, how long ago was that?

Rocket (37:58):

That was about three years ago. And briefly how I ended up getting here was when I was in Brazil still at the time, I wanted to watch Loving the show. I wanted to watch what other people thought of the show and started watching reaction videos to the chosen and came across these two kind of funny Midwestern guys who joked a lot, laughed a lot, and started talking about Yeshua.

Speaker 3 (38:32):

And

Rocket (38:32):

I was like, whoa, what’s this about? And I really liked the cut of their jib and I liked how they talked and they seemed to really have a deep appreciation for the Jewish people and the Jewish roots of their own faith. So I reached out to them and said, Hey, my name’s Rocket. I live in Brazil. I’m a new believer in the family of Messiah, and I’m sure you’re really busy, but if you have any time, I’d love to talk to you. And he wrote back talking about Dr. Tom Blake, our friend at Grafted, and said, Hey, nice to hear from you. I’m starting this course on biblical Messianic worldview and I’d like to offer you a place for free. I had no money, which is good. He offered me a place, if you’d like to join the course, please join it. And I did the course and we started talking and became friends. And he really was the first person. It was this gentile believer in Kansas City and I’m in Brazil that really mentored me and discipled me over Zoom once a week we’d meet, typically, he was my last call before Shabbat started.

(39:46):

I felt myself at the same time coming back to this place of conservancy and more of a Torah based Jewish life, which I just felt compelled to. I saw it in scripture and I felt it was part of the new life was coming back, but this time in the right way with Yeshua. And he was very encouraging about me and keeping to my Jewish identity. And then I remember a couple weeks later talking to my brother Matthew and saying, I had watched Tom’s story still so alive, the video about him and his family and the tragedies that they’ve not only endured but have come through so brilliantly. And I said, Hey, have you guys heard of Grafted and Rah, my sister-in-law’s like of course Matt just shared it, kingdom Living a few months ago. We know them really well. We love Tom and Leah. And I went, what? You know them? So here I’m in Brazil meeting this guy in Kansas City. So I wrote to Tom and said, Tom, do you, I think you know my brother Matt Rudolph. Oh my gosh, Matt Rudolph’s, your brother. So he actually called Matt to say, there’s this guy cat in Brazil called Rocket who says, you’re his brother.

(40:57):

He said, yeah, that’s my brother. And so again, feeling God’s divine beautiful contraction toward this pulling in of its presence and my world got smaller in the most beautiful, intimate, meaningful way with reconnecting to what it meant to I believe really be a Jewish man and lived the Jewish life and

Speaker 3 (41:22):

Call

Rocket (41:23):

And accepting that in light of Messiah and his finished work and connecting now to my Gentile brothers and sisters, which was new,

Speaker 3 (41:35):

Totally

Rocket (41:36):

In the family, and still trying to manage and navigate how all that works, but felt like, wow, this was a real new first chance

Speaker 3 (41:43):

To

Rocket (41:43):

Get things right and then felt, I heard the Lord say, Hey, you’re going to be moving to the Dallas area and I’m going to be with you on that journey. And so here I am.

David (41:54):

Wow. Well, I know we are out of time today. I know we had a tight window. I’d love to have you back and talk through this Jude Gentile relationship that we’re both navigating and I think that church is trying to navigate, and you have such great perspective on someone who’s lived such a full journey, tried so many different ways to connect to God and now through Yeshua, but not abandoning Torah conservancy and what it means to be Jewish. And it’s such a prevalent wrestle right now that we see taking place with Jew and Gentile. But as we end this episode before we have you back next time, what would you say is the clarity that maybe Yeshua gave you in your Jewish identity and where is it missing? What is the church missing when we don’t understand the Jewishness of all of our faith? Because you connected with a gentile believer and we’re discipled by a gentile believer in the Jewish Foundation. So there’s just all these interesting paths kind of converging. What do you see the church is missing and where do we go from here as Jew and Gentile in Messiah?

Rocket (43:21):

Well, what I’m discovering and learning and I’m believing with all my heart is there’s still a high relevance to me walking out my Jewish life in a fully Jewish context, in the body of Messiah. And that there is a role that we play still as mediators. I don’t know how it works. I can tell you it’s not necessarily fun. I’m not looking for attention, but I feel like it’s still important and there is a gap that we’re still standing in for the world. And every morning when I pray chakri in the morning prayers and there’s different times and passages where we’re praying for the full redemption of the world to come into the knowledge of him. I believe I’m doing that. That’s part of my call as a Jewish man and a Jewish believer in Yeshua. And that there’s something that still matters

Speaker 4 (44:29):

And

Rocket (44:29):

I would like, and it’s not better than, it’s just different, but it’s certainly part of our call. And I wish that my gentile brothers and sisters really understood better and supported us, that that’s part of our role and that I need to love the world and I need to love you so that you can love us because that’s when you do provoke us to jealousy when they see that the love that I have for you and the love you have for our God, that’s going to move my people towards him. And I think that’s the greatest mandate we have of all is June Gentile together in him is to see the world come into his kingdom and as originally intended. And so that’s something I think I’m thinking about a lot.

David (45:18):

That’s so good. Well, what I hear you saying is not that the Gentiles would just accept you as Jewish, but we would see it is needed that you embrace Jewish identity. And the parallel we often draw at the Center for Israel is like the male and female. And if the male church tried to convince female identities, not really important anymore because the Galatians 3 28 says there’s no longer male and female, so why are we doing this whole male female thing anymore when that’s been done away with in Christ is kind of how it’s, we have to come back to that word language. I know.

(45:59):

Yet male, female is something the church does understand fairly well. And we would all say that’s ridiculous. Not only should we accept females as female, we need females in the church. If we don’t, we’re almost not the church. We’re a men’s ministry. It’s like that’s not what the church is if we’re lacking this other distinction. But the church in large hasn’t gotten that understanding or revelation regarding Jewish identity. And it’s not that we just want to accept you. Okay, yeah, you’re Jewish and if you want to do the Jewish thing, that’s okay. I love you. I love you regardless. No, this is needed. This is essential. If we’re going to be the family, the one new man,

Rocket (46:43):

Just wrapping on that, going back to that picture of the puzzle and we all, every tribe, and I still believe that otherwise we wouldn’t be in tribe. I mean God makes us who He makes us for a purpose and a reason and to encourage each other to know our shape and how we fit together. And it’s only when we all come together truly that we can present that one picture of who he is and what he means to the world and how he’s calling us back into his belly, into his presence. And that to me is what we need to be continuing to aim for day by day, moment by moment.

David (47:18):

Yep. It’s a relationship. It is like a marriage for sure. It’s little by

Rocket (47:22):

Little, whether we always like it or not.

David (47:24):

Yeah. Embracing the dare I say, the conflict, the covenant and the conflict.

Rocket (47:30):

That was well done,

David (47:31):

David. Thank you. I try to find a way to squeeze it in every episode. Brilliant. Well, thank you for being here. Thanks for walking us through your story. I know it won’t be the last time that you’re here and we can dive into some juicier topics.

Rocket (47:45):

Juicier, I heard

David (47:47):

J see juicier toxics, but thank you for being vulnerable and just sharing your story. And it’s a privilege to know you and to embrace this wrestle with you because there’s still so much to be done and so much that needs to be wrestle through.

Rocket (48:07):

Thank you so much for having me. I’d love to come back and talk and wrestle with you through these things. And I want to extend appreciation to you and Center for Israel for the work that you do. You guys were big supporters of me when I first came back to the States. I didn’t have anywhere to go. I wasn’t sure what I was going to do, but felt I needed to be in this area. And you’ve been great friends to me and I really appreciate it and feel very welcomed here.

David (48:34):

Thank you. You

Rocket (48:34):

Feel at home here, so thank you.

David (48:36):

Good. You are at home.

Rocket (48:37):

Appreciate you all.

David (48:38):

Thank you. Thank you. Well, that’s all we have for today. Check out our other videos, links, sermons, conversations, and we will see you next time on the Covenant and Conflict Podcast. Have a great day.