Ethiopian Israeli Worship Leader Shares About Yeshua & Israel

I went to that church and she told me, oh, you convert people. Then she was in a supportive way. I’m like, no, I’m not in the converting business. I just want to share with my Jewish brothers that the Messiah already came. Our Messiah already came.

Yeah, the Messiah of Israel.

Yes, Israel. It came for the lost shape of Israel and also be blessing to all nations.

Welcome back to the Covenant and Conflict Podcast, where we take ancient truths, modern issues, and see where they connect together. And with us today, we have a very special guest, Emmanuel

Shaone Sha

On. We’re so excited you’re here. We just got to spend time together in Israel

And

Now you’re spending time in Texas. Which one could say is the Israel of America. He’s not disputing it, so it might be true. Well, we’re so excited that you’re here. Thanks for taking the time.

Thank you for having me.

Will you share a little bit about who you are, your story, what brought you to Israel, what brought you to faith in Yeshua? And then we’re just going to talk about all things Israel, the Jewish people following Yeshua, Ethiopia. So let’s talk, share a little bit about who you are.

Absolutely. So I’m Emmanuel. I was actually born and raised in Israel in a city called Natanya, which is 30 minutes order to Tel Aviv.

It’s my wife’s favorite place to land in Israel. Natanya the beach. Come on.

I’m in Texas.

Yeah, that’s true.

Yeah.

We’re not the Natanya of America,

But yeah, definitely beautiful place. But my parents actually came from Ethiopia, Ethiopian Jews, and

Which a lot of people might not even understand or have heard of the Ethiopian Jewish community, but it’s like one of the most ancient Jewish communities that exist in the world. And our pastor that serves over all of Africa has said that Ethiopia was is one of if not the only place in Africa that wasn’t colonized.

That’s right.

So it didn’t even get the infiltration from other forms of Christianity and modern Judaism. So Ethiopia’s Jewish culture is like ancient.

Yeah.

Will you talk a little bit about that?

Yeah, for sure. Maybe people consider even the Ethiopian Jews to be these pure Jewish people where most of the other Jewish people around Europe, western Europe, east Europe, they had the oral law

That

They claimed was given on the Mount of Sinai,

Like the Talmud and Mishna.

Exactly. All of those additional things to the Bible. But when you go to the Ethiopian Jews in Ethiopia, like my grandfather, my mother, they never heard of the oral Torah. They never heard about those books, never wrote it down. And they had purely the Old Testament.

Yeah, the ach.

Yeah. And they were exercising their faith based on that. So their way to exercise their faith look differently. They didn’t have those other instructions that were added by men.

Yeah. And correct me if I’m wrong, the foundations for the Ethiopian Jewish community, do y’all drive your roots back to the Queen of Sheba visiting Solomon and then coming back to Ethiopia? Is that right?

Yeah, so there are different,

Is that legend?

I would say that there are different spots in history that you can assume that there were Ethiopians people that were Jews in Queen Sheba or even Sura. We don’t know exactly which one were those. It was, but it really tracks back and you see the lineage Years, years, years.

Yeah. I believe there was a court date in Israel with trying to make Aliyah and the Ethiopian community was claiming Queen of Sheba from Ethiopia came, went back and there’s been a Jewish community ever since. And I think the court ruling in Israel’s major court was verified

And actually not only the Supreme Court, it was only approved by the main rabbi of Israel in that time, rabbi Oia Jose who approved, and he said, they are brothers, we need to bring them back. And that was even approved by the rabbis. One of the challenges that were in that time that they knew that the Ethiopian Jews were missing some of those oral alud books. So they were trying to Jewish them

Again

By adding those things on them.

Got it. So your grandparents, were they priests? Do I remember that right? You telling me that story?

Yeah. So my grandfather was a Jewish priest, a rabbi in a village called Go in Ethiopia

And they would call themselves priests. They were wearing the turbans and they had the same kind of model with the outer court, inner court. Even their synagogues were still modeled in that way.

And he would dress all white. He’s his big white hat. And my grandfather personally was one of the most influential leaders. And people come to him, ask questions about faith. He knew a lot of portions of the scriptures by heart memorized them. And his journey to faith was really interesting. As an evangelist came from the UK to the village and they were in close communities of Jewish. They were not getting mixed with other groups. They were Christians and Muslims. But one of those evangelists came to the village. He met my grandfather and he told him that the Messiah that we’re all waiting for already came. He shared with him that his name was Yeshua, Jesus or Yesus. And he told him that the prophecies point to him and he showed him the prophecies that were already clear to probably my grandfather because he didn’t have those other concepts of Messiah besides the

Bible.

And when he shared those with him, he also showed him the stories that point Yeshua in the scriptures. And the Holy Spirit moved into my grandfather’s heart and he actually took his big white hat and he threw it through the ground and he said, I’m going to follow Yeshua. So that was his turning point to knowing and accepting Jesus’ Messiah and Savior.

And was it your grandparents that moved to Israel or was it your parents?

So all of my family moved to Israel, including my grandparents.

Before you were born?

Yes, before I was born. So my grandfather, he accepted faith. He had 12 children. My mom was the only one to accept fate. The rest rejected faith.

Oh really? Is this still back in Ethiopia?

Yes.

Wow.

Still back in Ethiopia. And actually they made Aliyah.

So hey, wait. Okay, so your grandfather had 12 children?

Yeah,

Biblical

Come on.

12 tribes of Israel.

Hey,

He’s a priest. Why wouldn’t he have 12 children? And your mom is the only one of the 12 that followed Yeshua,

Accepted Yeshua,

And then did all 12 of his kids moved to Israel.

Yeah. So he started, he moved, his children moved, my grandmother moved and my mom was one of the last one to try move. And actually she has an interesting experience trying to make Alia as she was getting to the airport and getting approval with all the agencies. There was a guy there, it was Israeli, and he was fluent in a mahar, which is the Ethiopian language. And he saw my mother and he recognized her by the other people that were in the village and he told her, Hey, hey, I know your face. You are not Jewish. You’re a Christian. You got to understand this. Let’s go circle. Back in the village you had the Jewish village where you have only Jewish people

And

You have the Christians and the Muslim outside of the village persecuting the Jews. But inside the Jewish village you had those Messianic Jews that accepted Jewish, their Messiah been persecuted by the Jews

Being

Called names being pointed out. And that was kind of the first time for her to really get persecuted. When she tried to make Aaliyah, the guy told her, you’re not Jewish, you’re not making Aaliyah. And she was, what? My grandfather, my mother and my siblings are already in Israel

And

How you can say that I’m not Jewish? What do you mean? I was like, no, you’re not Jewish. And he sent her back home. Six months later she heard that guy left back to Israel and she said, I’m going to try again. She went and as she was standing in line, she got to the guy that gives the passport and everything. He looked at her and he was like, and she looked at him and she was like, oh, this is my cousin. And he told her, what are you doing here? All the family are in Israel. And she was Just give me your passport. He stumped it and he sent her to Israel as see if she was going to the plane. It was really feels like a Bible story, how she make it to Israel. And that’s how she came to Israel. She met my dad here.

Yeah. Well, this is an important thing to mention because maybe a lot of Christians listening don’t know, and we talk about this a lot, the understanding, especially biblically that a Jewish person that puts their faith in the Messiah of Israel is a very Jewish thing. We think of it as a Christian thing because we tend to think of gentiles who leave whatever pagan religions like the Roman Empire or atheism in today’s vernacular and then put their faith in this God of Israel or Jesus Christ, which means Messiah. We don’t often nuance, but a Jewish person like the Apostle Paul or any of the early disciples putting their faith in the Messiah of Israel, that’s not changed their Jewish identity. How would that ever change their Jewish identity? But in the early first, second, third century, really probably second through fifth century, there became an increasing divide
Of Christians believe in Jesus and Jews don’t. And the Messianic Jews were always caught in the middle and told, you have to choose. And it still exists today, most Christians don’t want to leave space for Messianic Jews in their theology and their understanding. And most people in the Jewish community don’t want to make space for Messianic Jews to be Jews because they think, no, you’re just a Christian. You’re pretending to be Jewish. Now you’ve rejected Judaism and Messianic Jews are often denied Allah, which is the return to Israel becoming an Israel citizen, an Israeli citizen, because they’ll say, even though you’re Jewish, your father was a rabbi, your family’s in Israel, whatever it is, if you believe in Jesus, you’re no longer Jewish. You’re a Christian. Which is crazy to me, but it’s widespread.

It is crazy. You can be Jewish and follow, I’m telling you, be an artist. Believe in whatever you want to believe,

You’ll

Still be considered Jewish. But as soon as you come and you mention the name of Yeshua

And

You put your trust in him, you lose your Jewishness, which is just, it’s not

Biblical.

It’s not basically.

Yeah,

Exactly.

But that’s important for us to know. So your mom makes aliya, she comes to Israel, and I remember you telling me her story of growing up, I think it was in a yeshiva and her having to wrestle with her belief and her following Yeshua surrounded by more of the Orthodox community. Can you talk about that?

Totally. So coming to Israel, literally my grandparents and family and my mother, they were dreaming. And before they came to Israel, they really knew it’s about to happen. They were praying and they were waiting to go and they just knew and they actually thought, they’re going to get to Jerusalem, it’s going to be all gold and ready. But when they got to Israel, they just getting in, receiving, my mom got to start studying. She was in the dental world and she started studying. It was in a religious place where it was supported by the government and kind of Yeshiva, but to women. And she was spending time there studying, but out of her faith, she wanted to share her faith with others. So she started sharing that with other girls and the numbers were increasing. People were coming to those baba groups in the dorms and

Hearing

About Yeshua, the Messiah, and some people didn’t like it and just short story, I don’t usually tell it outside, but I will share it today. When one of the ladies in that group got frustrated for some reason, she went and she told them about the group and what was going on in that religious circle.

There

Was oh, believers in Yeshua. So my mom, she dreamed that she’s going to be kicked out and she knew that it was going to happen

And she had a dream that she was going to get kicked out.

And she started packing and her friends asked her, why are you pack? And she said, I know why I’m packing. And literally day later in the morning, the people from the school came and said, Hey, you’re not going to school today. You have a meeting with the principal, which is their main rabbi. So she said, I understand. She took her stuff and she got to the meeting to the office, and as she entered the door, and this rabbi sits dressed all black, he has big long beard and all the books behind him.
And she sit down and he looked at her and says, her name is Leah. And says to her, Le, we couldn’t believe, we couldn’t believe that you believe in this yeshu. We couldn’t believe that you believe in this yeshu. These people call him yeshu. I will explain really close. And you’re not only believing in Yeshu, you are telling about him to others here in our school, in our dorms. And I’m telling you, I dunno where that courage from, I believe now I understand where that courage from came to my mom, where she just to the ground. And she’s told him, first of all, his name is not Yeshu, his name is Yeshua. He got angry. And actually just to explain, Yeshu is a acronym name for the name of Yeshua today. And most people in Israel call Jesus Yeshu. And it says, May’s name be blooded out and casted out of our memory. Those are the acronyms of those letters. They took one letter away that takes the whole meaning of Yeshua, which means salvation. So this is call it only, that’s something that was embedded through the generations.

Yeah, it’s almost like a derogatory term, like Joshy, like, oh, you’re a little.

Exactly, exactly. She told him, Hey, his name is Yeshua. And he was like, I can’t believe you’re telling me this. And she told him, look, all the books behind you are pointing to him. He is our messiah. He’s the one and one day we understand it. And he told her, no, no, no, you stop. You are not going to tell me about this Messiah. You’re not going to share that with me. And as she was saying that, and they were talking, he said to her, giving her an ultimatum, he said, you either stop believing in this Yeshua, Yeshua, and you start your studies again and we forget about this. Or you can go with your yeshu and you are being kicked out

Of

This school. And in that moment, she faced the situation where she had to choose and praise the Lord and by his grace, and she got even more. And she said from her mouth, she told him that my mom passed away a week ago, that I’m a new, I just, I just came to Israel and I’m new here and you still want to kick me out of this place. I just want you to know that one day you’re going to face God the great judge, and I just want to tell you, prepare what you’re going to say to him that day. And she was basically, he kicked out of the school. God has grace and everything, but just to understand what are my parents and our parents went through coming to Israel back in the day, words was not so acceptable.

Yeah, totally.

To be a follower of Yeshua.

Yeah, totally.

Well, it’s amazing. You come from such a strong family who’s strong in their convictions. So that then brings us to you. So when did following Yeshua become real for you? And now what do you feel called to do within the body of Messiah? What do you feel like your assignment is?

Absolutely. Yeah. So being born to this kind of family, you’re like, okay, I understand my faith is not just a faith that we have it culturally or something. This is a faith that we want to live and express it by end. It’s a lifestyle. And I grew up actually in Auto three school as well. It was the closest to our home and have amazing values. Some people would because of the rejection to Yeshua will throw everything that the rabbis say to the side. But no, they’re beautiful things.

Yeah, totally

In the faith and amazing things. Growing up, I felt different. I didn’t know why as a kid, but it was amazing studies waking up every morning, praying from the prayer books,

And

I was doing

Right behind you,

Come on

And making those prayer. I was praying everything in my heart in the name of Yeshua. So growing up, I didn’t really know what was the difference, but I knew there was a difference. Shortly I share that when I was something that was to women, fifth grade, I remember the rabbi in my school, he was the most amazing guy. Everybody loved him, he loved us, the kids. And he was sharing always about all those heroes in the Bible, Abraham, Moses, David, he was sharing all of those, but he never mentioned Dehua. And as a kid I was like, he doesn’t know Yeshua. Somebody should tell him. Before I did that, I went back home and I told my mom, rabbi in school doesn’t know Yeshua. Somebody should tell him. And she invited my dad. And they both explained to me why it was not a good idea. And that’s where the key moments for me, because that’s where I understood that I’m part of the minority. I mean, there’s two different worlds in Israel. My family kind of like Yeshua was part of my life. I had real experience with him since young age. I knew who he was, but still around me, everybody pointing and saying that my faith is wrong. So how can I as a messianic Jewish really trust in that? How can I be right? And all of those rabbis be wrong.
So those are questions that every Messianic Jewish kid or person in Israel has to go through those forces. And out of that, the first steps that called me to the calling that I believe got placed on my life. And Osa, he wants to see his people and recognize and see Yeshua as Messiah.

Yeah, totally. And for those of you who might not know, Emmanuel has been called by many people in Israel, the Messianic, Justin Bieber. So I cannot confirm or deny that. But you have done amazing things for the worship in Israel. There’s not a lot of messianic worship that’s coming from Israel. There’s only a handful. It’s almost a newer development that’s happening right now in the land, and you’re a very big part of that. So can you tell me about your journey as a worship leader? Because I’m sure that there’s also this tension of worship in the Western Christian culture and then worship in Israel, which in the Orthodox worship is not this vibrant part of the service in America. Very rarely would you go to a church and not experience musical worship. But I think many Christians might not realize that that’s not a very Jewish concept, at least in the services where you’re having an electric guitar and drums. So can you tell me a little bit about where the heart for worship came in and what God’s put on your heart?

Absolutely. So for me, it was close to my home as my mom was playing the keyboard with Ethiopian haik worship and just the Jewish culture and tradition is singing songs. We are around the table and we sing songs and we go to school in the morning and we not only pray from the door before we get to the class, we stand outside and we sing songs. And actually now that I got to remember, we sing every moment we sang in my school about the coming of the Messiah.

It’s

Like how we wait and long for the Messiah to come, to come, I believe, to come back. But it was really part of our culture, singing, singing. And so growing up like that, I grew up in a small congregation, inania, where we didn’t have all of those instruments and stuff. And my generation, our first language is Hebrew. So we want to worship in Hebrew, we want to do everything in Hebrew.

And

We didn’t have nothing. We just started singing acapella worship songs or either put a C and sing with a CD on.

Oh, a cd, got it. Yeah, yeah,

Exactly.

Because the Jewish culture, there’s lots of singing. I mean, even at the Passover Seder, there’s singing, but it’s mostly acapella.

Exactly.

And there’s not a lot of instruments in the service or the synagogue service or anything like that. So you’re trying to sing in Hebrew as this messianic Jewish community, and there’s not a lot out there.

Exactly. And going years later, when I was around 12, 13, 14, that’s where the first time I was exposed to the broader body of Christ in Israel and where some of the congregation already had those men. I remember going to my first youth conference where I saw somebody who did worship with a guitar, another guy on the bass, and one guy on the drums and one guy on the keyboard. I was like, they sing and they play live. What is going on? What is this? And I remember seeing the guy with the kids and I was like, I want to do that. So I started learning, going on YouTube and how to play Ade Samo like you. And so that was

The first song. It was Adele, it had to be

Adele. You got to start from somewhere. And they’re like, oh, I understand. I can do worship. And that’s where I started learning more chords and stuff like that. And then being able to minister that in starting from the home congregation where I grew up and pick up a guitar you cannot carry with the piano everywhere you go. That was kind of the first steps for me in that world.

And now you’ve released some albums or eps. You travel to other congregations and churches and lead worship, but you also speak and communicate and teach. So what would you say as you travel around America right now, you’re traveling, you, you’re here quite often. I feel like you’re a traveling fool sometimes. What are the things that you feel are maybe the most misunderstood from the Christian evangelical culture in America regarding Israel?

Yeah. So I feel like from what my experience, I go and I meet people. A lot of Christians would say those who say they love Israel, they never really engage with Jewish people and from Israel and Jewish believers. So they have those misunderstanding about different small things, if nuances, how they speak, how they reach Jewish people, how to just understand where we’re coming from, kind of like they don’t know. I don’t think that they don’t want to know. I believe they want to know and learn, but it’s just like the presence was missing of people from Israel out of Zion in those places. Yeah,

No, it’s really an important point. There was a historical term, and I think I’m going to butcher it, I can’t remember, but it’s something, there was a term given for the imaginary Jew. I can’t remember if imaginary is the right word, but it was basically this idea of, look, I’ve never met a Jew, but here’s what they’re like.

And

It’s like, wait, whoa, whoa, whoa. You can’t talk about the Jewish culture when you’ve never met a Jewish person. But because the Jewish people were always a smaller minority and there was all these conspiracies about the Jewish community, people would just latch onto this idea of the imaginary Jew. And even the ones that are, like you’re saying pro Israel or love Israel, love the Jewish people. In some cases there’s still this imaginary Messianic Jewish community and they’re missing the real relationship. I think it’s so important. That’s what we’re constantly trying to tell churches is first step, pray. Pray for Israel, pray. Next step, learn. Go to this website, read this book, watch these videos, learn more about the culture. And the third one is relate. Go meet the Jewish community, even if it’s the Orthodox synagogue across the street or if it’s Messianic, Jewish congregations in Israel, starting a relationship with them. But if we don’t have relationship, then we’re always dealing with the imaginary Jewish community in our head, and we’re always going to be off in some regard.

Exactly. Sometimes even, I mean, me going out of Israel, I believe I am kind of the first serah born and raised in Israel, going out to the nation doing the worship stuff. And people were surprised. Some people were surprised. Oh, they’re like dark skin Jews. I mean, it’s not the white colonialism or something. No, Israel is full of cultures and backgrounds and stories.

You just threw out the term sabra without even defining it.

Sabra

Meaning born in Israel, and this is a plant in Israel that’s thorny on the outside, but sweet on the inside.

Come on,

That’s you, Israeli. You can be thorny on the outside, but sweet on the inside. And that’s a term meaning you were born in Israel, right?

I’ll take it. That’s right. Yes.

So Sabras are born and raised Israelis. Well, I know there’s a burden on your heart for the body of Messiah, what we would call the body of Christ. Again, Christ is just the Greek word for Messiah. So those are interchangeable terms. A lot of people get a little wonky. Why is he calling it the body of Messiah, the body of Messiah, the Ecclesia of the church, understanding Israel and the importance of Yeshua regarding Israel. So I’d love to just let you talk on that. Why does it matter? I think that’s the question a lot of Christians ask, which is a great question. We were talking the other day, someone was like, Hey, was the Garden of Eden actually where they were dispelled from? Were they existing in Eden, but they were just rejected from the garden, but they were still in Eden, or were they rejected from all of Eden? And my question was like, what does that matter? Does that change anything if it was just the garden or if it was all of Eden? So many times that’s the question we ask, why does it matter? You’re coming with these amazing, fun facts about Israel and fun facts about the Jewish people and maybe even fun facts about Jesus being Jewish. But what does it matter? Does it really change anything for us to know this or to have a relationship with messianic
Jewish believers? What would you say?

I believe it’s really tied to God’s promise and covenant, which is unbreakable. God’s covenant is something that he said He fulfill it. If he promised something, it’s going to happen and it’s not going to replace or throw away certain group of people. And the importance of the Jewish people in Israel, from what I see in the scriptures and doesn’t matter what I think and what anyone think, but the scriptures say

Is

That when Jesus Yeshua talks to Jewish people, he says, I won’t be coming back until you say blessed is the one who comes in the name of the Lord and I, it’s an invitation that the Jewish people, Israel needs to get to accomplish and say and welcome him. And from the text, it’s really clear that until a large amount of Jewish people accept Yeshua as their messiah,

As

A nation

So

Good, we won’t be coming back. And we want him to be back as me as a believer, messianic believer. And I believe whoever is watching this, if you’re a Jewish person or not, you follow your show. You want to see him coming back. And that’s a key thing. So the gospel is for everybody, but it’s for the Jew first.

Yeah, totally.

There is reason for that.

Yeah. Priority.

Yeah.

Yeah. The term first in Romans one 16, I’m unashamed at the gospel of Yeshua, Messiah, Jesus Christ, power to salvation, to all those who believe to the Jew first. That word first could be first. It could also mean especially, especially why, especially because they’re the firstborn. They’re the firstborn of the covenant, the ones that he made the covenant with first, and eventually it was to go to all the nations. That was the promise of Abraham is through you. I’m going to bless all families of the earth. And that happened through the resurrection and ascension of Yeshua. But I love that verse that you mentioned where Jesus says, you will not see me again. I can’t tell you how many times I read that growing up or heard that statement growing up and never really slowed down and focused on what Jesus just said. Oftentimes when you read this, now, I was pulling it up, Luke 13, I think it’s in Matthew 20, maybe 21, 23, Jesus is weeping over Jerusalem and he says, oh, Jerusalem. Oh, Jerusalem, you who killed the prophets? You who stoned God’s messengers. How I desperately wanted to bring you under my arms like a mother hen, which is, there’s something fascinating even in that because that’s a feminine characteristic. He’s saying like a mother, which talk about things that make Christians go wonky. It’s like because there’s this feminine side, this motherly side,
I wanted to gather you under my hands like a mother gathers her chicks, but you wouldn’t let me. And so then he starts talking about, so because of this, you’re going to have your house left in ruins, destruction’s going to come. The same thing’s echoed in the TaNaK, the Old Testament. You’re going to get kicked out of the land. All these things. And that’s where Christians usually focus. See, this is Jesus prophesying the destruction of the temple because the Jews rejected him. Which like you said before, let’s nuance this. Some Jews, maybe even most or many, but all of the disciples were also Jews. So it’s not fair to say the Jews rejected him. All of his disciples were Jews, all of the early church were Jews, all of the ones that gave their life to Yeshua and got filled with the Holy Spirit. Acts two are Jews
Traveling to celebrate Pentecost Shavuot. But then he says, you will not see me again. And I’ve even heard you talk about this on a podcast where you said, yeah, Yeshua said, you won’t see me again until this happens. And the response was like, oh, so you think Jesus isn’t coming back until Israel asked for him back? And I remember watching that and being like, no, that’s not what Emmanuel said. That’s what Jesus said. He said, you will not see me again until you cry out Jerusalem. Barba blessed as he who comes in name and Lord, which is from the Psalms. And so you’re right. If we’re wanting to hasten the return of Yeshua, then Israel has to understand who Yeshua is and want him. The reason that I would argue it’s so important for the Christians to get it is because Christians are often presenting Jesus in a way that no Jewish person would want him. Because they’re saying, if you want Jesus, you have to stop being Jewish and become Christian. Well, that’s not the message. That’s not what Yeshua wants. When did he say, alright, disciples, you want to follow me? Stop being Jewish. No, it was Jew and Gentile together in covenant. So sorry. No, this is powerful. Jumped on top of that. But I think that’s why it’s so

Important.

Do you feel like churches are starting to get this, or do we still have our work cut out for us

In a way, but yeah, just like this podcast and when I travel and being able to share those things, and I was sharing with you earlier when I went to that church and she told me, oh, you convert people. Then she was in a supportive way. I’m like, no, I’m not in the converting business. I just want to share with my Jewish brothers that the Messiah already came, our Messiah already came

The Messiah of Israel,

Yes, of Israel. He came for the lost shape of Israel and also be blessing to all nations. That’s the burden that Paul also has. And he shares that.

He literally says, I would trade my salvation if it meant the salvation for my people. And so if we’re going to love Israel like Jesus, then we should be weeping for Jerusalem. If we want to love Jesus, like Paul, we should be willing to trade our salvation. If it meant the salvation for Israel, which again, salvation means deliverance, you could translate salvation into deliverance every time we think it’s only spiritual eternal, but it’s also this physical deliverance or this emotional deliverance. If you ask any Israeli, do you want to be saved? Salvation? That might be okay. You’re trying to convert me Christianity, but do you want to be delivered from the hands of the enemy? Absolutely. So we’re not just praying. Christians should not just be praying for the spiritual salvation, but there’s also this desire for no, no, deliver them from the hands of the enemy, deliver them from hands of oppression, deliver them where they can live in peace, that it’s more nuanced than just this one checkbox said, prayer done, which is how often Christians think. And it’s so much greater than just that. Obviously salvation is incredible, the fact that we can spend eternity with God forever, but I just feel like Christians often miss that physical element as well.

Yeah. We see the spiritual tension physically today. You can look in Israel, you can see what has been going on since even before the establishment of the nation of Israel back in 1948, till today, October, 2023. You can see that it’s not physical, it’s spiritual in tension. Opposing that chosen people.

Yeah, totally. I’ve always said it’s one of the most convincing truths or most convincing arguments that the God of the Bible is the one true. God is the complete illogical persecution of the Jewish people. For all of recorded history, the Jews have been persecuted. And you’re like, why? They’re persecuted when they’re not in their land. They’re persecuted when they are in their land. This isn’t about
Just land. Why were they persecuted in Europe? Why were they kicked out of almost every nation in Europe? Kicked out of England, kicked out of Russia, kicked out of Germany, kicked out of Poland, kicked out of Spain, kicked out of Portugal. Like it’s a spiritual attack against God’s chosen. Just exactly what you said. There’s no other logical way to describe why. It’s always the Jewish people. There’s a spiritual element as well. And so I think until we understand that, we’re just going to be grasping at straws. Oh, Israel’s persecuted because of this reason. It’s deeper than that. So before we leave and go get lunch and maybe some Texas barbecue, is there anything you want to leave us with? Any last thought, prayer, encouragement, rebuke, anything you want to leave us with?

Yeah. I believe that today more than ever, Israel needs your prayer, our prayer, and not only prayer, but standing with Israel, being a voice, clear voice. And as you study and learn, so you said prayer is learning and relating, and you can start those and go from praying, continue praying, of course, to learning more, understanding the language, understanding the people, understand those things. And then relating, connecting and being a voice in your communities and in your surroundings. Small. It takes small drops to affect a whole community.

Yeah, totally.

So if you feel like you cannot do anything, yes, you can do something about it, and you can stand in the way. And I believe God’s calling for us. Yeah.